D&D 5E Is it possible that the Revised Ranger is not dead?

lkj · Jun 20, 2019

Kobold Avenger said:
I'm curious on what would be variant features on other classes other than the Ranger. Don't get me wrong that class needs a bunch of tweaks to make it more appealing in my eyes, but have they ever mentioned anything else other than for example not having the Monk use Two-Weapon Fighting as their "virtual fighting style".

You know, I think Jeremy may have referred very peripherally to other classes in one of those Dragon+ twitch shows awhile back. But I couldn't tell you which one. And it's probably not enough substance to bother seeking it out. Other people have mentioned the Sorcerer as a possibility.

AD

Fenris-77 · Jun 20, 2019

Expertise in Survival would be good too. There's no reason a Rogue should be able to be twice the tracker a Ranger is. Actually, skill related buffs in general would be ok. the Ranger has always been MAD and skill money-ish compared to the other combat classes, so why not build on that?

doctorbadwolf · Jun 20, 2019

Parmandur said:
I really, really liked the Level 1 subclass concept, with the origin environment being the subclass choice. Don't know if that is what they will go with, but way more evocative than standard 5E Rangers for sure.

That, and the idea of fixing the animal companion by it replacing spellcasting, are the only two ideas he floated that I’d absolutely not even consider using.

I have literally no interest in a ranger that is the terrain they come from, instead of having the tactical specialist (hunter), Beast Master, Shadow Walker (DeepStalker), Far Traveller (horizon walker), etc.

I do dig his other ideas for making the terrain choice matter. I’d also love to see new fighting styles that exemplify things the Ranger does that others don’t.

Parmandur · Jun 20, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
That, and the idea of fixing the animal companion by it replacing spellcasting, are the only two ideas he floated that I’d absolutely not even consider using.

I have literally no interest in a ranger that is the terrain they come from, instead of having the tactical specialist (hunter), Beast Master, Shadow Walker (DeepStalker), Far Traveller (horizon walker), etc.

I do dig his other ideas for making the terrain choice matter. I’d also love to see new fighting styles that exemplify things the Ranger does that others don’t.

I did like the Warlock-style choice, as the best way to try and salvage the Ranger with animal companion archetype. Honestly, I see the beastmaster going away in future iterations of the Ranger, if it doesn't follow a spell slot equivalent style framework something along the lines Mearls proposed.

The idea of a terrian-specific Ranger subclass really scratched a major itch for me: mage-warriors tied to nature, who bring the fighting style of their home wherever they go. Much stronger narrative identity, fired my imagination in a way that the standard Ranger, with it's confused identity, never has.

In particular, I was taken with the possibility of culture hero archetypes that can take elements from particular real world cultures, but tied to an environment rather than a specific ethincity (Arctic Rangers pulling from Finnish/Norse/Siberian/Eskimo folk heros, Desert Rangers pulling from Arabic/Australian-Aborigine/Navajo/Hebrew heros, Grassland Rangers pulling from Mongol/Persian/Magyar/Lakota legends, etc...)

doctorbadwolf · Jun 20, 2019

Parmandur said:
I did like the Warlock-style choice, as the best way to try and salvage the Ranger with animal companion archetype. Honestly, I see the beastmaster going away in future iterations of the Ranger, if it doesn't follow a spell slot equivalent style framework something along the lines Mearls proposed.

I very much doubt it will go anywhere, tbh. I can see an “alternate feature” that allows the ranger to spend spell slots to boost the companion, or simply new spells that boost a creature the caster controls. Choosing between Spellcasting feature and the Companion feature is a non-starter, for me.

The idea of a terrian-specific Ranger subclass really scratched a major itch for me: mage-warriors tied to nature, who bring the fighting style of their home wherever they go. Much stronger narrative identity, fired my imagination in a way that the standard Ranger, with it's confused identity, never has.

I’d be fine with a subclass that worked that way, just not as a replacement for the current subclasses. I don’t particularly think the ranger has a confused identity, but for folks who do, a subclass that redefines the Ranger by their Favored Terrain choice could be fun. I’d call it The Warden.

In particular, I was taken with the possibility of culture hero archetypes that can take elements from particular real world cultures, but tied to an environment rather than a specific ethincity (Arctic Rangers pulling from Finnish/Norse/Siberian/Eskimo folk heros, Desert Rangers pulling from Arabic/Australian-Aborigine/Navajo/Hebrew heros, Grassland Rangers pulling from Mongol/Persian/Magyar/Lakota legends, etc...)

There are pitfalls there, but if handled carefully I’m all for it. As long as it doesn’t replace the ranger.

CapnZapp · Jun 20, 2019

"One of the hard things about working in tabletop is you can’t patch a physical book"

Yes, you can, and you should have patched the Ranger a long time ago.

CapnZapp · Jun 20, 2019

Mistwell said:
There is some very interesting 6e discussion, and game modularity discussion, that takes place after the 33.30 mark.

Some notes I took:

"[Emphasis that a 6e would be very far off and it gives him a headache thinking how hard it would be to even start]

Interesting. The first time I've seen any official WotC person mention 6E (though I may be late to the party).

Saying "it's far off", of course, is exactly what they say when they HAVE started thinking about the new edition, and it actually isn't that far off.

The same with console generations.

The only time it really IS far off is when you hear absolutely nothing about it.

The minute they start telling you how far off it is, it isn't.

CapnZapp · Jun 20, 2019

Xeviat said:
I'd welcome another stab at a variant. I want the beast master ranger to work. I've been trying to rebuild it to have a pet from first level but the design space isn't really big enough.

My preferred solution is for the rules to concede that any player with two characters will always steal a bit more than his share of the spotlight, and instead make it an opt-in subclass.

And then design the animal companion we deserve, one that is as sturdy as any other party member (that is on the front lines), and dealing useful amounts of damage.

In short, the design needs to realize that you simply can't have a fun cool pet without making the package a little overpowered.

Parmandur · Jun 20, 2019

CapnZapp said:
Interesting. The first time I've seen any official WotC person mention 6E (though I may be late to the party).

Saying "it's far off", of course, is exactly what they say when they HAVE started thinking about the new edition, and it actually isn't that far off.

The same with console generations.

The only time it really IS far off is when you hear absolutely nothing about it.

The minute they start telling you how far off it is, it isn't.

No, Mearls has mentioned 6E in the past, particularly when talking about the Ranger, on the Happy Fun Hour. He did specify in the past that they have not begun work on a 6E, because 5E is still selling.

Parmandur · Jun 20, 2019

CapnZapp said:
My preferred solution is for the rules to concede that any player with two characters will always steal a bit more than his share of the spotlight, and instead make it an opt-in subclass.

And then design the animal companion we deserve, one that is as sturdy as any other party member (that is on the front lines), and dealing useful amounts of damage.

In short, the design needs to realize that you simply can't have a fun cool pet without making the package a little overpowered.

The spell slot equivalency summoning system should do for balance and flexibility: though in the event of a total Ranger redesign, I think the Beastmaster is toast.