D&D 5E Why the Druid Metal Restriction is Poorly Implemented

5ekyu

Hero
"Railroading is not removing choice in selecting mechanics, but rather removing options in the game world by stating the possible to be impossible without any reason given besides not wanting the player to do it, or "the rules".

So, just to be clear, now asking your player to abide by "thevrules" of the class you chose is railroading?

Great!!! Yet another case of a word being eroded to meaninglessness.

By this definition, I am proudly railroading my PCs for nearly 40 years now.
 

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jasper

Rotten DM
...Considering Sage Advice is as official as the PHB, it's not a change in the rule to say Druids can wear metal. It is stated quite clearly that nothing stops them from doing it except personal choice..

....
Sorry. Sage advice does tell you what happens. In the first poster he mentions the penalty.
What happens if a druid wears metal armor? The druid explodes.
So now the rest of the party has to get a mop and bucket. Now there a good reason to sneak into the dungeon to rescue the rest of the party.
Knock Knock
Thief. " Hey we just had a Druid explode on us. And in the corridor. Can I get a mop and bucket.
Guard, " Ok, come on it"
OR
POUND POUND POUND
Druid, "open this beep beep beep door or I will do it."
Guard opens the slot see a druid holding a chain shirt above his head.
Druid, "give us all the prisons or I putting it on.!"
Guard, "now now chap. Lets be reasonable. You don't have to do this. I can get a cleric down here to help you talk about it. You don't have to kill yourself!"
Druid, "RELEASE THE PRISONS OR I WILL DO IT!"
Guard, " Calm down. Calm down. Let me call my superior."
Druid, " I am going to do it. "
Guard, "the prisoners are not worth it. What did the paladin ever do to help you? Or the thief? Calm down!"
Druid, "I AM DOING IT!" Dons shirt! BIG EXPLOSION!
DM. "Ok guys I going to need 100d6. Let me count 40 squares. Um this 5E so that is 80 squares of damage!"
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
So, just to be clear, now asking your player to abide by "thevrules" of the class you chose is railroading?

There are no rules, and there have never been any rules, that say a druid cannot don a suit of metal platemail in order to sneak into a castle. If a DM prevents me from taking that action, he is in fact railroading me by invalidating my decision.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
[MENTION=6999115]Ohmyn[/MENTION] .. It says it right in common sense. What happens if they put on metal armor? What happens if someone else knocks them out and they wake up covered in metal armor? Do they explode? Does the universe fold into itself because the impossible has happened? Hopefully their universe has paradox protection.....
Judge, " Mr. Druid you have found guilty of trespassing, freeing all the zoo the animals, and square dancing in triangle formation. The sentence is dead by metal armour!"
Druid, "no. no. No. "
The guards take the druid out and strap plate mail on the druid. And quickly run away. The universe gives the down thumb side. BOOM! The druid explodes.
Guard 1, " Another suite of plate armour gone. It is getting expensive to get rid of evil druid lawbreakers."
Guard 2, " The judge's brother runs the local armour shop."
 


Ohmyn

First Post
"Railroading is not removing choice in selecting mechanics, but rather removing options in the game world by stating the possible to be impossible without any reason given besides not wanting the player to do it, or "the rules".

So, just to be clear, now asking your player to abide by "thevrules" of the class you chose is railroading?

Great!!! Yet another case of a word being eroded to meaninglessness.

By this definition, I am proudly railroading my PCs for nearly 40 years now.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that when you read a line in a silly way that makes the possible impossible, and use that to say that an action simply cannot be performed by the player that otherwise should be possible, then yes, it's railroading. What people are somehow not getting is that this is a roleplaying game. If I say, "My father is lactose intolerant, so he can't drink milk, because dairy gives him gas," no person in their right mind is going to interpret that there is a magical barrier in front of his mouth that prevents dairy from touching his lips, else the universe tears in two as milk entering his mouth creates a spacetime paradox because it has been stated that he cannot drink milk.

If you actually apply the proper use of language, you'd know what the sentence is saying, but it appears common sense is no longer applicable in reading. Even with the Sage Advice clarifying the proper interpretation is that nothing in the game system prevents it, people still don't want to accept that, because they refuse to use basic reasoning.

Saying "you can't use heavy armor because you lack the martial training to use it" does not mean you can never wear metal armor. It means that if you wear it, you gain no benefits of its use, or suffer the game system's proficiency/encumbrance penalties, because you lack the martial training to use it. Same with saying "you can't wear metal armor because you'll lose your magic while you do." The Druid can still put on the metal armor if they say they'll do so, they'll just suffer the consequence of losing their magic while they do, plus any other penalties based on the edition (none in 5E because they are proficient in its use). Suffering the consequences is their choice to make, just as with making any other decision.

The rules say that a character not proficient in the use of tools cannot use those tools. This does not mean that the character is literally physically incapable of trying to use the smith's tools or a poisoner's kit if they're not proficient. There's no magical barrier preventing them from putting their hands onto the tools. It just means that nothing will come of their efforts to use them, because they can't perform the tasks that are listed in the rules as requiring proficiency.

If a Druid says "I put on the glove", you as a DM are railroading them if you say "No you don't." It's their choice to make, and nothing in the game system prevents them from taking the action. If the game system has penalties for it then they can deal with the consequences of their action. It's not railroading to say, "Okay, you put on the glove, but you are now wearing metal armor, so as per the rules you lose access to your magic." It is railroading to say, "Nuh-uh. No you don't."

This is not a video game. You don't get a red X over your character if you try to equip something you're not proficient in. I don't see Paladins getting DM blocked if they want to break their oaths; they're fully allowed to do so, it just so happens that most of the game systems put in penalties for when they do. Such penalties no longer exist for Druids. If they choose to put it on, there is nothing in the game system stopping it, or penalizing it. If it doesn't have penalties in the game system, and you create some, those are house rules.

Sorry. Sage advice does tell you what happens. In the first poster he mentions the penalty.
What happens if a druid wears metal armor? The druid explodes.

Sure, that's true, if you ignore the line after it that says "Well, not actually." and then goes on to explain that nothing happens, and that the Druid does not lack the ability to do so.

Judge, " Mr. Druid you have found guilty of trespassing, freeing all the zoo the animals, and square dancing in triangle formation. The sentence is dead by metal armour!"
Druid, "no. no. No. "
The guards take the druid out and strap plate mail on the druid. And quickly run away. The universe gives the down thumb side. BOOM! The druid explodes.
Guard 1, " Another suite of plate armour gone. It is getting expensive to get rid of evil druid lawbreakers."
Guard 2, " The judge's brother runs the local armour shop."

Or, more logically, if it's universal that Druids suffer a loss of magic for 24 hours if they wear metal, then anyone that captures a Druid and wishes to hold it prisoner, will be able to lock metal armor onto it so they can't use their magic to escape. Never heard the story of the man in the iron mask? Same concept. I could only hope that the DM would have an ounce of sense and doesn't make the game end because the universe tears itself in half when the enemy puts a metal mask on the Druid.
 
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Sacrosanct

Legend
I don’t know why this is still going on. Look at the definition of a rule.
1.
one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct within a particular activity or sphere.

Look at the txt “druids won’t wear metal armor”

It literally fits the definition of what a rule is. It’s a principal that governs conduct of druids. Just like paladin behavior, or any other number of examples. This shouldn’t be up for debate if you’re speaking English.

A person might not LIKE the rule. Or AGREE with the rule, and that’s fine. Change it. Ignore it. D&D provides good support for that. But don’t argue it isn’t or hasn’t been a rule.
 

JonnyP71

Explorer
And throughout D&D druids have had the ability to don metal platemail in order to sneak into a castle. Nothing you have said has so far been able to counter that fact.

There are 3 specific places in the 1E PHB (1 on page 19, 2 on page 21) that state a Druid cannot wear metal armour, 1 place uses the word 'unable', another uses the word 'inability', another specific states that only leather is 'permitted'.

Please find me one reference which categorically states that they CAN...
 

JonnyP71

Explorer
I hadn't actually noticed this categorically false remark before. A 1st edition thief could use a two handed sword - they had a non-proficiency penalty and couldn't backstab with it, but they could use it.

Page 19 of the 1E PHB specifically states this is not the case.

I quote:

**** A thief may use a short sword, broad sword or long sword but not a bastard sword or a two handed sword

That is quite clear, nothing about non-proficiency penalty.
 

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