D&D 5E Why the Druid Metal Restriction is Poorly Implemented

lowkey13 · Jun 27, 2019

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Paul Farquhar · Jun 27, 2019

You are correct to point out that the term "strawman" has been missaplied. hover this statement "

your posting history is clearly nothing but the most extreme trollish behaviour" is itself trolling.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 27, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Yes, but the point that you (and others) keep missing is that you demand that every ... single ... thing ... be spelled out with a negative consequence; and if not, you argue against it.

Actually I don't.

I'm quite content in my knowledge that in my game there would be no negative consequence if a druid put on metal armour (unless the player decided to role-play it themselves).

5ekyu · Jun 27, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Wrong.

A player can say "my character flies across the chasm", even though it is against the rules because their character cannot fly. The DM doesn't say "you can't do that", the DM says "you fall into the chasm". The player can try and break the rules any time they like, and the DM narrates the outcome (which is usually failure).

Actually, the player saying their character "flies across the cavern" is describing the **result** of their actions. The GM determines the results of actions, not the player.

Now, it's pretty common for players to Express actions by ssying what they want to fo, like "I run across the room" but that's only a kind of shorthand to avoid adding "my character will try to..." to every statement.

But here for druids the rule was that druids will not wear metal armor. I would think it obvious that a player who declares his druid is gonna wear metal armor is violating thst rule, but guess not.

lowkey13 · Jun 27, 2019

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Paul Farquhar · Jun 27, 2019

Rule Lawyer: "My druid swims across the ocean in his plate armor."

DM (me): "you sink after six feet. You are drowning."

RL: "Yeah, I can do it. I read the rules, and we are only playing with PHB + DMG. I read page 182! Ima swim across the ocean! In my plate. While carrying my bag o' rats! RESPECT MAH PLAYA AGENCY! HOW U LIKE DEM APPLES!"

DM (me): "Rule 1: the DM narrates the outcomes, your agency comes from being allowed to try it".

Paul Farquhar · Jun 27, 2019

lowkey13 said:
And I'm quite content that in my game, if a player discussed the issue with me and had a reason to do this, it wouldn't be an issue.

But that's not what's happening, is it?

No, certain people are insisting that if you are doing that doing that you are "playing it wrong".

Luckily, the many games I run don't have people that demand special treatment due to their idiosyncratic demands (and/or present lists of grievances and lecture the "stupid olds" about how they never understood the rules they were playing), and instead have reasonable people that discuss the resolution of their issues.

Mine too.

5ekyu · Jun 27, 2019

lowkey13 said:
And I'm quite content that in my game, if a player discussed the issue with me and had a reason to do this, it wouldn't be an issue.

But that's not what's happening, is it?

Luckily, the many games I run don't have people that demand special treatment due to their idiosyncratic demands (and/or present lists of grievances and lecture the "stupid olds" about how they never understood the rules they were playing), and instead have reasonable people that discuss the resolution of their issues.

Given the people posting on this thread, I am very happy... erm, content... to see who I am aligned with.

Me?

I am pretty sure that players in my games would ask me about the metal armor rule if they even considered ever violating it. The druid in my current game did ask if armors of various other types would be available or known. His druid is currently wearing one from shells.

I am also sure if they had a concept of dwarven smith-druid who did wear metal mediums and shields - they would know if they gave good story basis etc and it added to the game - I would likely allow it. In that case, what we would likely see is they wear metal armors made by special rituals etc thst honor the hills thevorexwas taken ftom etc - so the run of the mill off the shelf metal armor would not be "kosher".

But I am also sure my players know how far the will not means maybe, tyrant, player agency approach would get them here too.

lowkey13 · Jun 27, 2019

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Paul Farquhar · Jun 27, 2019

5ekyu said:
Actually, the player saying their character "flies across the cavern" is describing the **result** of their actions. The GM determines the results of actions, not the player.

Now, it's pretty common for players to Express actions by ssying what they want to fo, like "I run across the room" but that's only a kind of shorthand to avoid adding "my character will try to..." to every statement.

Agreed. When a player says "my character does X" it actually means "my character tries to do X".

But here for druids the rule was that druids will not wear metal armor. I would think it obvious that a player who declares his druid is gonna wear metal armor is violating thst rule, but guess not.

I agree that the player is trying to violate the rule. Players are ALLOWED to try and break rules. They will probably fail (although not in this case). There is nothing to stop you trying to break the law. You may or may not succeed.