"I'd Never Normally Play This, But . . . ." -- i.e., That One Time You Got Talked Into Going Way Outside Your Comfort Zone

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 21, 2019

Xaelvaen said:
Really - I had no idea they'd create such animosity in their similarities. Cool history lesson however - thank you sir.

Just like bettas.

practicalm · Jun 21, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
IGURPS was inspired by the original Hero System game, Champions! and Hero 'going universal' was doubtless inspired by GURPS, they have enough in common that fans of one usually /hate/ the other.

Do you have a source for this? because as I understood it, GURPS comes more from The Fantasy Trip which Steve Jackson designed and recently gained rights to and launched a kickstarter

The point buy system for Wiards and Melee designed by Steve Jackson predates HERO by 2 years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GURPS

Tony Vargas · Jun 21, 2019

practicalm said:
Do you have a source for this?

IIRC, Steve Jackson himself came right out and said it. May well have been in one of the GURPS books. But, remember, we're talking acknowledgement of 'inspiration' - there's no hint of plagiarism or being 'derivative' or anything like that.

There was a lot of rancor between GURPS and Hero System fans over which was really 'first' in one sense or another. GURPS was the first RPG, as far as I know, to call itself 'Universal' right on the cover, but Hero fans will /insist/ that Hero was de-facto 'universal' first because it had several different-genre games out before GURPS hit the shelves. Thing is, so did BRP, it was a 'core system' not universal, a game company re-cycling core system mechanics from one game to another. Heck, stodgy old TSR re-cycled systems from Boot Hill in Top Secret and D&D in Gamma World. When GURPS came out, Hero was just another Core System among many (well, several) - the potential of effects-based point-building powers was surely there from '81 on, but there was no published Hero System using it that way until '89.

The other way folks would come at that claim is to assert that GURPS never achieved 'Universal,' at all, and, indeed, while it didn't change it's name, later versions were self-described as "multi-genre" instead.

Are there still UseNet archives to search? I'm sure there's plenty of water under that bridge.

The point buy system for Wiards and Melee designed by Steve Jackson predates HERO by 2 years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GURPS

The 'point build' in Melee was just distributing 24 points to stats, 1:1, instead of randomly rolling them - it may even have been one of the first games in print to distribute points to stats like that, but probably not a new idea, even then, it's a very obvious variant when faced with 0D&D's random generation.

Distributing points to stats is nothing like Hero & GURPS with 100+ or 100s of points, plus points from disadvantages, building every aspect of your character.

practicalm · Jun 22, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
IIRC, Steve Jackson himself came right out and said it. May well have been in one of the GURPS books. But, remember, we're talking acknowledgement of 'inspiration' - there's no hint of plagiarism or being 'derivative' or anything like that.

There was a lot of rancor between GURPS and Hero System fans over which was really 'first' in one sense or another. GURPS was the first RPG, as far as I know, to call itself 'Universal' right on the cover, but Hero fans will /insist/ that Hero was de-facto 'universal' first because it had several different-genre games out before GURPS hit the shelves. Thing is, so did BRP, it was a 'core system' not universal, a game company re-cycling core system mechanics from one game to another. Heck, stodgy old TSR re-cycled systems from Boot Hill in Top Secret and D&D in Gamma World. When GURPS came out, Hero was just another Core System among many (well, several) - the potential of effects-based point-building powers was surely there from '81 on, but there was no published Hero System using it that way until '89.

I've been on the forums and was on the Pyramid private usenet group before that and I've never heard of Steve Jackson saying HERO system was the main inspiration. I can check my copy of Man to Man which was the first GURPS and it was very much like The Fantasy Trip.

And I've never seen any conflict between GURPS and HEROs players as most of the people I know used both.

Tony Vargas said:
The other way folks would come at that claim is to assert that GURPS never achieved 'Universal,' at all, and, indeed, while it didn't change it's name, later versions were self-described as "multi-genre" instead.

Are there still UseNet archives to search? I'm sure there's plenty of water under that bridge.

The 'point build' in Melee was just distributing 24 points to stats, 1:1, instead of randomly rolling them - it may even have been one of the first games in print to distribute points to stats like that, but probably not a new idea, even then, it's a very obvious variant when faced with 0D&D's random generation.

Distributing points to stats is nothing like Hero & GURPS with 100+ or 100s of points, plus points from disadvantages, building every aspect of your character.

The Point by was for The Fantasy Trip, not the basic Melee and Wizard. There was more than just stats.