D&D 5E Another attempt at fixing the -5 / +10 issue

77IM

Explorer!!!
Supporter
I always liked the idea of -5/+(1 damage die). This makes the maneuver actually bad in the general case, although it's still good if your attack bonus is buffed way higher than the enemy's AC. It's also another subtle buff to the greataxe over the greatsword.

I like the OP's idea of introducing this trade-off into the other pillars, but those pillars very distinctly lack any sort of consistent degree-of-success mechanic. Occasionally a check will say "If you succeed by 5 or more..." but I don't think that's widely adopted enough to make the -5/+10 formula work here.

I really wish that "skill crits" were a thing. If you roll a 20 on an ability check, it should feel special (or if you have Expertise, a 19-20). Then the trade-off could just be -5/+crit. The meaning there is pretty clear: you're taking a really risky approach that might have a better payoff. I'm not sure this sort of thing should be gated by a feat, though. It seems like id't work better as just a thing in the DM's toolbox. Like, "If the player describes a risky approach with a big payoff, increase the DC by 5, but if they succeed, they get an extra benefit, such as..."
 

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Quartz

Hero
I like the OP's idea of introducing this trade-off into the other pillars, but those pillars very distinctly lack any sort of consistent degree-of-success mechanic. Occasionally a check will say "If you succeed by 5 or more..." but I don't think that's widely adopted enough to make the -5/+10 formula work here.

I had opposed skill checks in mind, where you roll to see who gets the better score. Say the DC to lift something is X, but the more by which you exceed X the better.
 

TheSword

Legend
I used to think the -5/+10 was broken as a DM. Until I was a player. I’m pretty convinced now that sneak attack, attack cantrips, etc balance this out with other classes and actually the extra damage is needed against high hp/low AC monsters like giants. I’m leaving this feat alone for now.
 

Xeviat

Hero
I never suggested -Prof/+2xProf to be variable. It's fixed at your proficiency bonus.

Additionally, -5/+10 should be better than 0/0 because it is part of a feat. If we were trying to balance a universal mechanic, that might actually help out the duelists and twfers, then we would be wanting to compare those two directly. What we should be comparing is -5/+10 to +1/+1.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I never suggested -Prof/+2xProf to be variable. It's fixed at your proficiency bonus.

Additionally, -5/+10 should be better than 0/0 because it is part of a feat. If we were trying to balance a universal mechanic, that might actually help out the duelists and twfers, then we would be wanting to compare those two directly. What we should be comparing is -5/+10 to +1/+1.

Yes, but more importantly we should be comparing TWF with a built in bonus action with -5/+10 to various setups of classes without that built in bonus action.
 

Xeviat

Hero
Yes, but more importantly we should be comparing TWF with a built in bonus action with -5/+10 to various setups of classes without that built in bonus action.


I don't think TWFing should get a -5/+10 feat. I don't think that should be usable with one-handed weapons and I don't like it stacked with polearm mastery.

TWFing needs a universal fix and a better feat, but -5/+10 isn't the answer.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I don't think TWFing should get a -5/+10 feat. I don't think that should be usable with one-handed weapons and I don't like it stacked with polearm mastery.

TWFing needs a universal fix and a better feat, but -5/+10 isn't the answer.

This thread is about a proposed feat that separates out the -5/+10. I'm not sure how comparing -5/+10 to +1/+1 (which is a solved problem in favor of -5/+10) is going to do anything.
 


Xeviat

Hero
This thread is about a proposed feat that separates out the -5/+10. I'm not sure how comparing -5/+10 to +1/+1 (which is a solved problem in favor of -5/+10) is going to do anything.

You're proposing separating -5/+10 out into it's own feat, which means TWFing characters could pick it up.

I said I don't think TWFing should have access to -5/+10. So I wouldn't like your change.
 


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