D&D 5E Attacking defenseless NPCs

Greenstone.Walker · Jun 26, 2019

robus said:
How would you adjudicate the action and why?

How would you handle it the other way around? The characters are camped, all asleep except for one on watch. An attacker with a bow takes aim...

What would your players say if you just said, "Character Juma is dead."?

Whatever ruling you make has to go both ways.

Me, I'd call for Initiative and use the Surprise rules.

5ekyu · Jun 26, 2019

It seems to me reading about the checkmate rule - Hold Person and its ilk all move to tier-3 spells. Any monsters etc that toss outnparalysis on hit jump up to tier-3 CR too.

Those are just off the top of my head.

Have to figure out where in tier-2 we move Invisibility now that one-hit can be one-kill by-passing HP. My guess is invisibility goes to replace its 4th level greater version and that one goes to tier-3 at 7th level.

Ovinomancer · Jun 26, 2019

Man, I do so love the "But what if a real jerk is the one running your game, how does it work then?" argument. As if the problem is the ruling, not the jerk.

The Crimson Binome · Jun 26, 2019

Ovinomancer said:
Man, I do so love the "But what if a real jerk is the one running your game, how does it work then?" argument. As if the problem is the ruling, not the jerk.

The problem is that nobody can agree on who the jerk is. It's either the DM who doesn't let something work, because of the rules; or it's the DM who doesn't apply the rules, because of reasons.

By my count, the worst jerk of a DM is the one who doesn't apply the rules consistently, where you know that the only reason you're still alive is because they're intentionally playing the opposition like idiots.

Tony Vargas · Jun 26, 2019

Ovinomancer said:
"But what if a real jerk is the one running your game?"

You get a more authentic experience than if a fake jerk were running it.

Bawylie · Jun 26, 2019

5ekyu said:
It seems to me reading about the checkmate rule - Hold Person and its ilk all move to tier-3 spells. Any monsters etc that toss outnparalysis on hit jump up to tier-3 CR too.

Those are just off the top of my head.

Have to figure out where in tier-2 we move Invisibility now that one-hit can be one-kill by-passing HP. My guess is invisibility goes to replace its 4th level greater version and that one goes to tier-3 at 7th level.

Invisibility is helpful but IMO it does not, on its own, satisfy “target is totally unaware of you.”

Bawylie · Jun 26, 2019

Saelorn said:
The problem is that nobody can agree on who the jerk is. It's either the DM who doesn't let something work, because of the rules; or it's the DM who doesn't apply the rules, because of reasons.

By my count, the worst jerk of a DM is the one who doesn't apply the rules consistently, where you know that the only reason you're still alive is because they're intentionally playing the opposition like idiots.

I don’t think the DM who doesn’t let something work is a jerk. Same for the one who doesn’t apply the rules due to reasons.

I think the biggest jerk DM thing is when they decide my actions for me.

5ekyu · Jun 26, 2019

Bawylie said:
Invisibility is helpful but IMO it does not, on its own, satisfy “target is totally unaware of you.”

I get invis is not as one-stop-easy-pop as Holds become, but it covers a lot of the workload one would "in real life" would see as "common sense" to reach anything like a consistant "fiat threshold".

But simply put, in the game now, its powerful for a 2nd level spell with only one shot possibly getting you advantage (rest is class features).

Add in the "fiat checkmate bar" so that this can be a help towards insta-kill, it goes up a lot, imo.

But out of curiousity what level did you move holds to or did you just ban them altogether after checkmate?

Bawylie · Jun 26, 2019

5ekyu said:
I get invis is not as one-stop-easy-pop as Holds become, but it covers a lot of the workload one would "in real life" would see as "common sense" to reach anything like a consistant "fiat threshold".

But simply put, in the game now, its powerful for a 2nd level spell with only one shot possibly getting you advantage (rest is class features).

Add in the "fiat checkmate bar" so that this can be a help towards insta-kill, it goes up a lot, imo.

But out of curiousity what level did you move holds to or did you just ban them altogether after checkmate?

Didn’t take any position on Holds. I have no wizards or sorcerers in any group at the moment.

What is a “fiat threshold?”

5ekyu · Jun 27, 2019

Bawylie said:
Didn’t take any position on Holds. I have no wizards or sorcerers in any group at the moment.

What is a “fiat threshold?”

Fiat treshold is that line in the gms mind of "helpless enough" to qualify for tossing the normal damage system and moving to the checkmate or plan-b or whatever.

Its when you cut from orc on guard duty to that same orc having insufficient defenses.

I mean, if we assume the hidden archer vs orc guard is possibly at play for checkmate, then some degree of bored was mentioned. I would think some degree of armored would apply too, since armor is designed to cover vital spots.

But at some point a gm decides against using the system rules for attacker unseen against surprise first round of combat and going checkmate - based on a culmination of stuff in his head. Does guard in full plate vs guard naked play a role other than AC here? If its a cresture with natural armor does a dart throw still have the same pop-n-kill threshold as a longbow?

Etc etc etc.