Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?

Mallus · Jun 26, 2019

It's like you're juggling brightly-colored balls filled with nitroglycerin, [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION].

lowkey13 · Jun 26, 2019

*Deleted by user*

billd91 · Jun 26, 2019

Jacob Lewis said:
Its all part of an elaborate scheme to make Pathfinder 3rd Edition the ultimate comeback edition that will fix everything. Its the only way to ensure loyalty from any fanbase. You take away what they love, try to pass it off as something completely new and different, then quickly turn around and go back to the original formula. People love that crap! See Coke/New Coke/Classic Coke for more details.

Yeah, no. It was also never Coke's intent either.

Mallus · Jun 26, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Is Pathfinder 2 the 2016 Ghostbusters Reboot, or is the original Pathfinder more of a colonialist narrative, like the original Star Wars trilogy?

Glad I edited my original post. TNT is far too stable. And whatever happened to the strikethrough tag??

LordEntrails · Jun 26, 2019

Also as an outside observer I've wondered the same as the OP. One other aspect that is implied in this discussion but not stated, Is it known that PF1 is no longer sustainable? Was their an evolve or die mandate?

I mean it has seemed like for a long time PF just kept publishing more options, more adventures, more content; and that was their model. Did they simply run out of topics/content or did they find that they were no longer attracting new players or...?

billd91 · Jun 26, 2019

Mercurius said:
I mean, it almost seems like Paizo saw their base diminishing with the surging popularity of 5E and realized that they had to take a risk. Maybe they're accepting a smaller base, but are going all in on something newish rather than just the diminishing returns of "P1.1" and more of the same type of books.

Anyone have any insight into the thoughts behind Pathfinder 2? Is it Paizo's 4E?

In some ways, yes. PF2 does incorporate some 4e-isms like the increases in attacks/defenses moving in a constant rate as the PCs level AND those being matched by monster/NPC attacks/defenses. The treadmill. And that is one of the things that bothers me about PF2 considering I very much prefer 5e's bounded accuracy model.

And it is definitely going to rub some players with deep stacks of materials the wrong way. And it's definitely not being released at the heights of opportunity like 3e, 5e, and PF1 all were and all benefited from. So yeah, kind of like 4e.

On the other hand, they had a 10 year run based on a rule system that was already 9 years old when they released it. It's showing a lot of age, and not in a good way. There's stuff cobbled on it all over the place - some really fiddly stuff that could really stand a clean-up. Plus, their market for rule supplements was pretty thoroughly saturated. If they're going to try to sustain a game system and keep the lights on, they've got to do something to refresh it every once in a while. While every 5 years may be too rapid (going by the market's reactions to WotC's history), 10 years certainly doesn't feel like it was a rush or a hustle.

There seem to be some pretty good things going for it - I like most of the action economy changes. But there are also quite a few things I didn't like in the play test. So I'll check it out - in PDF form at least so I can get by spending $14.99 rather than $59.99. And if it works for me, we may shift over from PF1. It's too soon to tell. I have a hard time imagining it will be as successful as PF1, but we'll see if it finds a sustainable niche. I'd like it to do so because I like Paizo's stuff in general and I'd like to see them maintain a spot at the table.

Arilyn · Jun 26, 2019

It's not all that difficult to understand. PF1 is getting old, and is based off an even older system. Most RPGs go through more than one edition. Players almost always grumble and complain. And yes, it is often a risk, but Paizo has proven that they usually make sound decisions, and when things get rough, they weather the storm. We'll have to wait and see how PF2 does in the wild. I think it's a safe bet it will sell like hot cakes at Gen Con. If it falters after that, hopefully, Paizo will be able to pivot back to first edition and regroup.

Off topic, but the new PF card game edition is awesome. More money flying out of my wallet.

Tony Vargas · Jun 27, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Is Rey Disney's attempt to create the Warlord class within Star Wars?

She strikes me more as a sorta force-based Paladin. ;P

Hussar · Jun 28, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
She strikes me more as a sorta force-based Paladin. ;P

With rapiers. Must not forget the rapiers.

Nilbog · Jun 28, 2019

I'm looking forward to PF2. My group primarily plays 5e, and while we love the system, there is a yearning for more crunch, so we've been looking at trying new systems. I swore off both PF1 and 3e, as I found them incredibly time consuming and frustrating to DM for, and while we like 4e, none of our group currently has a subscription to the online char generator and with the amount of options, char gen is a nightmare without it.

I'm really hoping (and from what I read in the playtest) the PF2 could land in the sweet spot, or be the closest system to it, for our group.

So maybe Paizo think that as well as lot of people who want to move from PF1, there are also a few people out there who want to try something different from 5e, and what with 5e drawing a lot of new players it may be time to dip their toes?