D&D 5E Feats or Ability Increases

ccs

41st lv DM
3E has waaaay too much baggage. I would have went with Pathfinder if I was married to 3E.

So you're wanting to play PF disguised as 5e....:)

Just hand out 5e ASIs every 3 character lvs, & a 5e feat every 4 class lvs just like now.
Keep the 5e fighter ASI/Feat bonus.
Keep the 5e bonus feat for variant humans.

Oh, and stop fretting about balance. Just do it old-school style & apply your changes to actual play.
Keep what works/proves most fun, tweak or discard what doesn't & let us know how the grand experiment went.

Oh, & don't forget to get your players input on alot of this stuff - because they're the ones who're going be using them.
 

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Shiroiken

Legend
Do anybody have consider or try to play with only feat and no ASI?
I have taken a serious look at this. Unfortunately, the Feats are not particularly balanced, with about half a dozen feats being featured in most campaigns. If you remove the ability score option, then everyone is going to have most of those feats (particularly Lucky and Resilient, which are awesome for just about any character). Either a bunch of new feats would have to come out, or I would have to re-balance the existing feats to make it work out. I did realize that the +1 half feats would become VERY interesting for people with an odd ability score, but would be almost worthless if you have an even score.
 

GlassJaw

Hero
This is one of my big "projects" for 5E.

Overall, I like the feat system. That said, I do want more character customization. Feats are too "all of nothing" in 5E. Since you only get 1 every 4 levels - and that they compete with an ASI - makes the cost very high. You simply aren't going to see many in play, especially since most campaigns end at level 10 or 12ish.

And that's all without even taking into account the imbalance across the feats themselves. Since the opportunity to take a feat is so rare, it exacerbates the power divide from the top tier feats and everything else.

The system I've been working on grants every character 1 "feat point" per level. A ASI of +1 costs 2 points. Ability point increases are divorced from all feats. Every feat is then given a point cost. Players can spend their feat points whenever they level and can save them.

This system allows for both increased customization but also the rebalancing of the "problem" feats. I've also been considering requiring prerequisites for some feats.

Here's what I have so far:

Code:
Ability Score Increase	2
Alert	3
Athlete	1
 - Climber	1
Actor	1
 - Mimicry	1
Charger	2
Crossbow Expert	2
 - Hand Crossbow Expert	1
Defensive Duelist	3
Dual Wielder	3
Dungeon Delver	2
 - Trap Expert	1
Durable	2
Elemental Adept	3
Grappler	2
Great Weapon Master	6
Healer	3
Heavily Armored	2
Heavy Armor Master	2
Inspiring Leader	3
Keen Mind	1
Lightly Armored	2
Linguist (2 languages)	1
 - Cryptographer	1
Lucky	4
Mage Slayer	3
Magic Initiate	3
Martial Adept	3
Medium Armor Master	2
Mobile	3
Moderately Armored	2
Mounted Combat	3
Observant	2
 - Lip-Reader	1
Polearm Master	4
Resilient	2/3?
Ritual Caster	3
Savage Attacker	3
Sentinel	4
Sharpshooter	6
Shield Master	4
Skilled (1 new skill/tool prof)	1
Skill Expert (prof x2)	1
Skulker	3
Spell Sniper	3
Tavern Brawler	2
Tough	4
War Caster	4
Weapon Master (2 weapons)	1
 

Ohmyn

First Post
Like what GlassJaw posted, I'd advise heavily considering the power of individual feats and considering their value individually, and not just adding a blanket cost to feats if you're looking to increase the amount people can grab. I see you plan to "split the feats in two", but I'm not sure what you mean by that, so I'll just toss a random point to consider on that note.

I haven't personally thought about this a lot, but what immediately comes to mind is I'd split the feats into 3 categories: those that affect damage output directly, those that grant an ability score increase, and then everything else. You can grant an ASI at every 4 character levels as opposed to class levels; however, if you gain an ASI from an actual class, you swap that entirely for any feat that has a single ASI built in. This way classes that get ASIs, and people that opt to stick to one class anyway, still gain something at their ASI levels, but it's not an entirely free selection to stack on top of other free selections. The feats that give an ASI tend to be things like gaining a proficiency in a save (Resilience), some form of armor proficiency (Lightly Armored), a significant boost to a skill (Observant), etc. They don't tend to be things that can give a significant combat damage boost, like Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, Polearm Master, Great Weapon Fighter, etc.

I find that the extra attack and damage increase feats tend to be the most powerful when players are able to stack them, so I'd be less reserved in handing those out. If the feat somehow gives you extra attacks, or increases your damage directly, it falls into this category. You don't want everyone to be the same because they can all start out with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter right out the gate, or all start with Polearm Master and either Great Weapon Fighter or Sentinel. Everyone will likely want to start with those, and the people that don't are going to very rapidly fall behind in damage output, making balancing encounters quite difficult with such a heavy disparity. For this reason, those feats perhaps should require the player to spend their actual ASIs at every 4 levels to obtain, as opposed to being able to grab for free in some way.

The "other" category of feats, AKA the ones that give neither an ASI or direct attack increase, can probably be given out a bit more openly, something like every 5 character levels, or whatever you want to come up with. These tend to be feats like Dungeon Delver, Grappler, Healer, Inspiring Leader, etc. I feel that these ones are the ones that add the most extra flavor to the individual characters, and getting one free every 5 levels or so should not be overwhelming. If you want you could maybe give one of these out at level 1 as well, just so they can start with that little bit of extra personalization, but I'd weight whether or not you feel you're giving people too much first (maybe make some test builds and see what you can do).

With all of this, ignoring a free level 1 feat, a character will be the same as normal until level 4. At level 4, they get the normal ASI, even if multiclassing. If they didn't multiclass, on top of the normal ASI they get a free feat that offers an additional ASI, such as Observant or Resilience. At level 5, everyone gets a free feat that does not give an ASI nor give extra attacks or damage output, such as Healer or Tough. If they're multiclassing all willy-nilly, they may not see any extra benefit until level 10 after this, but they'll still get their full ASI at 8 regardless, and another free "other" feat at level 10. People that stick to a single class that gives extra ASIs like Fighter or Rogue, should maybe still be allowed to spend the extra ASI levels (meaning not 4, 8, 12, etc), and grab any feat they want, since it is a class feature that would normally not be limited; however, if you do feel it OP to do so on top of all of the free feats they could get, and the free ASI feat at level 4, maybe limit these to one or two of the feat categories as you see fit.

I just said all of this as it came to me, so maybe it's full of holes, but it's hopefully at least food for thought.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
If you're going to split them up, I'd give Feats at ASI levels and give a +1 to an ability score at every even character level. This allows a slow buildup, rather than a sudden boost at every 4 levels.


Sounds interesting would be more so if every +1 was functionally more meaningful
 


Xeviat

Hero
For class balance sake, moving ASIs to character levels and leaving feats where they are (and adjusting the +stat feats) could be the easiest way to do it. I'd end up having to rebalance the feats and add a lot more, but it could prove good for giving my players the ability to customize their characters beyond their subclasses.
 

Horwath

Legend
I have added bonus feats at lvls 1,5,9,13,17,20

they have to be racial feats, skill feats from UA, and "weak" feats from PHB
 

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