D&D General The perfect D&D edition (according to ENWORLD)

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
No, because the concept of the Warlord is not a military officer with a rank. That's the 5e Soldier Background, that might give you a rank.

I Googled "5e Warlord" and took a look at the top 5 results:

Those who emulate the archetypal Warlord employ the tactical maneuvers of great generals and commanders of old.


#2 didn't really have any descriptive info, but I loved:
Supreme Leader.
Starting at level 16, your commands are issued with godlike authority.

#3 all I have is the description of the file (I'd have to buy it....like THAT's gonna happen)
First and foremost a leader,


#4 and #5 are the same document, and a target rich environment. Here's paragraph 2:
Collapsing to the ground, a man succumbs to wounds,exhaustion, terror, and the overwhelming by the clash of steel
all around. Death closes in, but before it can claim him, a hand
appears, pulling him to his feet.


"On your feet, solider"


#6 is #3.

#7:
Warlords take charge in fights. They help their allies by directing them...



Gosh I wonder where I get this impression from.

But I'll keep an eye out on those pages, for when you post and ask them to stop spreading false stereotypes.






 

log in or register to remove this ad

Tony Vargas

Legend
Gosh I wonder where I get this impression from.
You conflate 'leadership' in the sense of providing inspiration or tactical coordination, with Leader in the sense of an officer, Noble, or other position of legitimate authority. It's an easy mistake to make, since officers and nobles who were particularly good at their job evinced both sorts.

And, you found no support for your idea that the player was in any way supposed to be bossing around other players, quite the contrary, those are support abilities, the power of which flows to the ally. The player who's character is returned to the fight by a Warlord's inspiration has more opportunity to make decisions for his character, not fewer, for instance.

But I'll keep an eye out on those pages, for when you post and ask them to stop spreading false stereotypes.
Provide links to any such you find here on ENWorld, and I'd be happy to do so.


My thing is that I really don't like being told what my character thinks. And so many things about the Warlord...again, the versions I see today, not whatever was in some book 15 years ago...
10 years ago, but out of print is out of print.
simply scream "your character admires/obeys this other person's character." So in my mind that is you dictating to me how to play. My only option is to mentally re-fluff it into magic...
Well, not, your /only/ other option (not even a good option: if you were to "re-fluff" it mentally as 'oh, this must be magic' then it would fall apart if it ever happened in an anti-magic field, at best you'd be RPing as delusional - magic or not has mechanical implications, it can't just be fluffed away).

More viable options might be: consider what your character would or could or might think, that would be compatible with getting the benefits, and appropriate to the relationship the two PCs have. You may be inspired by someone you look up to, for instance, but you may also be inspired to protect someone weaker than you, or to out-perform a rival, for other instances.

And, if you just absolutely cannot come up with any rationale, then, like a Paladin refusing healing from the ally-of-necessity Cleric of Asmodeus, or the old-school Barbarian refusing* the magic-user's Haste spell, you just turn down the benefit.
It's a valid RP choice.
It might get you & even the whole party killed, but, hey, some heroes have tragic flaws.

Also, basic character-concept compatibility like that is something that, if it's a potential issue for you, really needs to get hashed out at some point, preferably a "Session 0," but before it gets to be an issue, at any rate. One player may not feel that a Warlock is a suitable ally for a Divine character, for instance, and that could be hammered out one way or another - the characters could 'not get along' RP-wise, but still help eachother when the chips are down, for instance, or one player might just choose a different character on the grounds of irreconcilable differences - but, hey, at least they each had a /chance/ to play the characters they wanted to.















* technically you couldn't refuse a spell in that sense, but maybe the DM would let you save vs it.
 
Last edited:

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
You conflate 'leadership' in the sense of providing inspiration or tactical coordination, with the sense of Leader in the sense of an officer, Noble, or other position of legitimate authority.

No, I don't conflate those two things at all. I merely include them as various forms of unacceptable "leadership".

It's like that dumb "Inspiring Leader" feat (which always makes me grimace as a I duly write down my temporary HP), but it's a whole class of bogus mechanics.

But I won't hold that against you; it's an easy mistake to make.


The player who's character is returned to the fight by a Warlord's inspiration has more opportunity to make decisions for his character, not fewer, for instance.

EL OH F*$&ING EL.

That's gotta rank with "I'm not robbing you; I'm giving you an opportunity to work hard and make yourself rich."
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
It's like that dumb "Inspiring Leader" feat (which always makes me grimace as a I duly write down my temporary HP), but it's a whole class of bogus mechanics.
They're not /bogus/, the rationale works fine. I get that you don't like them, and (from prior conversations) that you'd prefer your character be more absolute in his independence, but that sort of thing is going to keep cropping up in any cooperative RPG.

Again, it's the kind of thing that players should handle among themselves within a group. Like any other topic where two players might have different preferences at the same table.

That's gotta rank with "I'm not robbing you; I'm giving you an opportunity to work hard and make yourself rich."
Heh. It's not a hand out, it's a hand up.
One interesting thing about the in-fiction difference between Clerical healing and Martial inspiration as hp-restorers is that the former is a favor granted that comes from the Cleric (or through him, from his God), leaving you beholden, while the latter depends on strength that comes from within the recipient of those hps (in 4e, the mechanics of most healing were 'surges' which fit the Warlord fiction well, but the Cleric also had particularly powerful non-surge healing).
It's not something I've seen a lot of (but, not /none/ of, either), but Cleric did have a leg to stand on if they wanted to proselytize & try to convert you on the grounds that their divine gifts have saved your life, or even just, more prosaically, charge you for it like* you'd pay for a healing potion. That's not a big problem, but it's a real one, on the same order of problem you're trying to manufacture for the Warlord, and it's been an occasional annoyance going all the way back.












* Back in the day, Finneas Fingers featured a grumpy Cleric who charged for healing, for one in-print, comedic, instance. And most editions have had tables of spell-casting fees that included healing.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
My thing is that I really don't like being told what my character thinks. And so many things about the Warlord...again, the versions I see today, not whatever was in some book 15 years ago...simply scream "your character admires/obeys this other person's character." So in my mind that is you dictating to me how to play. My only option is to mentally re-fluff it into magic (or something), which is exactly what you yourself refuse to do regarding magical healing.
I'll be perfectly honest, building your characters on some sort of island with no reference to other players isn't some kind of estimable position to hold. My players can and have altered their conception of and overall play of their characters to complement other PC's, both in session zero and during the campaign. Our game is all the better for it. Any one character's overall presence and tactical acumen is merely something for the other PCs to adapt to and react to, just like they adapt to another character's use of dark magic or holy power.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
I'll be perfectly honest, building your characters on some sort of island with no reference to other players isn't some kind of estimable position to hold. My players can and have altered their conception of and overall play of their characters to complement other PC's, both in session zero and during the campaign. Our game is all the better for it. Any one character's overall presence and tactical acumen is merely something for the other PCs to adapt to and react to, just like they adapt to another character's use of dark magic or holy power.

How do you get from "there's this one character concept that I don't want to interact with" to "no reference to other players"?
 

Paul3

Explorer
I realize that these preferences may or may not be what the majority of people on this site desire, but I can tell you right now that there are things on this list that, if present, would have prevented me from getting back into the game.

WOTC have done a perfect job IMO of understanding that to grow the game, all of the additional mechanics are small barriers of entry, that when taken together, become massive gates. I would NOT play the game listed in the original post.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
I realize that these preferences may or may not be what the majority of people on this site desire, but I can tell you right now that there are things on this list that, if present, would have prevented me from getting back into the game.

WOTC have done a perfect job IMO of understanding that to grow the game, all of the additional mechanics are small barriers of entry, that when taken together, become massive gates. I would NOT play the game listed in the original post.

I don't think the version presented in this thread is that egregious, but I fully agree with the sentiment.
 

Paul3

Explorer
I don't think the version presented in this thread is that egregious, but I fully agree with the sentiment.

I agree. Most are fine, but for instance, as soon as we start getting too many feats, breaking combat down into flanking and positioning and all that stuff, you are getting at the heart of why some of us had not played for many years.

Just my personal preference, but if I want a tactical combat game, there are many out there that do it much better. If I want a story/character driven game that included combat, I think they have it right by keeping it relatively simple and fast.

There are a few other nitpicks with the list, but I just wanted to point out that the list strays from some of the core game principles that is one of the reasons for the game's resurgence.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I just wanted to point out that the list strays from some of the core game principles that is one of the reasons for the game's resurgence Most are fine, but for instance, as soon as we start getting too many feats, breaking combat down into flanking and positioning and all that stuff, you are getting at the heart of why some of us had not played for many years.
So, many micro-feats and da grid are anathema? Fair 'nuff:

*Combat: Core rules will be light, where you can play on a grid, or TotM. Similar to how 5e is.
Other stuff - ironically, referencing only 4e, not 3e or 2e Combat & Tactics - is shunted to a sourcebook.

*feats/backgrounds: feats like they are in 5e, but make background a little more impactful other than just a couple skills.
'Big' feats, not many of them, presumably optional - that's what I'd take from "like they are in 5e" anyway.


So, no, not really.
I'm not sure that I agree that those are the big factors in said resurgence, either. I'm not sure any mechanical or presentation quality really is, beyond avoiding edition warring, anyway (when ardent fans hate on their own thing very publically, the mainstream tends to shrug and stay away).

5e is more classic-game referent than the last two editions, which is good for a come-back. And, there was a broader TT gaming renaissance well under way when 5e finally came out - that probably deserves a lot of the credit for bringing in new players.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top