D&D 5E What spells should have had the ritual tag, but don't?

Mistwell said:

And your foes are never out looking for a fight when you're doing something else?

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Foes CAN seek you out to attack you. But it doesnt NORMALLY happen every day. Heh, never mind six different sets of enemies seeking you out − all on the same day!

Every day!

It is absurd.

Anything with an eight hour duration might as well be a ritual. As a DM who enjoys throwing a spanner in the works of 'system' players, the key engagement will happen at 8 hours and 12 minutes. Oops!

Feather fall.

Yaarel said:

Foes CAN seek you out to attack you. But it doesnt NORMALLY happen every day. Heh, never mind six different sets of enemies seeking you out − all on the same day!

Every day!

It is absurd.

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It's not. It's normal for a lot of games. Most games take place in hostile territory. A dungeon, a hostile controlled wilderness area, a hostile city, the underdark, whatever.

At a lot of people's tables, foes are looking to kill you. If you've killed some of them already, they're actively searching you out, rallying alies, coordinating a search, preparing defenses, etc.. In addition, there are foes who randomly may wander by where your party is located. There are entire subsets of rules for both the foes seeking you out, and the wandering monsters, along with a subset of spells intended to deal with those situations. This is part of the game at a lot of tables, on a regular basis.

Resting safely is a challenge. Resting safely for 16 hours every day would be very challenging in a lot of games and is not normal for those games without the protection provided by other spells usually.

If you're finding your adventures are almost always such that you safely stay out of harms way for 16 out of every 24 hours I'd suggest that's not your typical adventure.

I am not saying it's wrong, or bad. I am saying I don't think it's typical, and it would explain why you think mage armor is more powerful than it is - because for your games it lasts "the entire adventuring day".

And if you come to understand many other people's games that's not how it works, maybe you will understand their objection to your position better.

Yaarel said:

Foes CAN seek you out to attack you. But it doesnt NORMALLY happen every day. Heh, never mind six different sets of enemies seeking you out − all on the same day!

Every day!

It is absurd.

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You’re talking past the other person.

Mistwell isn't suggesting that an adventuring day of 16 hours is just constant combat. You’re the only one using that concept as part of your posts. What we are suggesting, is that for many or even most tables, you cannot predict when a fight will happen, including while resting.

doctorbadwolf said:

You’re talking past the other person.

Mistwell isn't suggesting that an adventuring day of 16 hours is just constant combat. You’re the only one using that concept as part of your posts. What we are suggesting, is that for many or even most tables, you cannot predict when a fight will happen, including while resting.

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The discussion is clear enough.

Relating to how valuable Mage Armor is, is how frequently useful it is. This depends on the type of story.

If someone is marching thru a city of the dead, there might be frequent combat. If someone is in an urban intrigue or on a ship, there might be infrequent combat.

At low levels, it matters whether a Wizard needs to cast the spell once or twice per day.

If casting it once seems to NORMALLY deal with the threats at hand, then it is moreorless equivalent to always on.

If casting it twice or sometimes three times per day seems NORMAL then it is somewhat less valuable in comparison.

In the latter case, to make Mage Armor a ritual means it is always on, thus the ritual makes it noticeably more powerful.

Yaarel said:

The discussion is clear enough.

Relating to how valuable Mage Armor is, is how frequently useful it is. This depends on the type of story.

If someone is marching thru a city of the dead, there might be frequent combat. If someone is in an urban intrigue or on a ship, there might be infrequent combat.

At low levels, it matters whether a Wizard needs to cast the spell once or twice per day.

If casting it once seems to NORMALLY deal with the threats at hand, then it is moreorless equivalent to always on.

If casting it twice or sometimes three times per day seems NORMAL then it is somewhat less valuable in comparison.

In the latter case, to make Mage Armor a ritual means it is always on, thus the ritual makes it noticeably more powerful.

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It isn't about frequency. I don’t know how else to make that clear.

doctorbadwolf said:

It isn't about frequency. I don’t know how else to make that clear.

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How many times do you cast it.

‘How many times’.

This is what the word ‘frequency’ means.

Yaarel said:

How many times do you cast it.

‘How many times’.

This is what the word ‘frequency’ means.

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This sort of nit picky failure to engage with what someone is saying is beneath you.

doctorbadwolf said:

This sort of nit picky failure to engage with what someone is saying is beneath you.

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Heh, perhaps this sentence describes oneself as well.



Anyway, you come across as if there is a misunderstanding. As far as I can tell, there is none.

You want Mage Armor to be a ritual − you argue that to make it always-on is nonbroken.

I agree always-on Mage Armor is nonbroken. (I even feel a low-level Wizard needs such a boost.)

At the same time, all official rituals are less useful for combat applications. I like keeping rituals this way for noncombat.



In a thread about expanding the list of spells that can be used as a ritual, I want the new spells to likewise stay away from combat, and focus on making exploration and social situations more interesting.