D&D 5E Camping outside the BBEG's door: yea or nay?

Oofta · Jul 2, 2019

Bad guys are generally reasonably intelligent. It's highly unlikely the BBEG will have a inner sanctum that does not have an escape route or is virtually impenetrable barring a siege. If the BBEG is an undead, I hope the PCs are ready to wait it out a long, long time.

So camp outside the doorstep and the BBEG knows you're there or can reasonably deduce it because all the patrols don't report in? At best when you do go in the place has been cleaned out. If you're unlucky, the place has a lot of traps in addition to being cleaned out. Worst case they call for reinforcements and when you wake up (if they don't just attack while you try to sleep) you wake up to find a small army ready to discuss the conditions of your surrender.

jasper · Jul 2, 2019

"Dear PCS,
Heard you coming. Thanks for making change my ways. I took most of the loot. And don't break the pentagram as you open the door. "
The wizard quietly superglues the whisk broom to the bottom of door. Throws the demon some left over gp and leaves quietly by teleportation.

Ralif Redhammer · Jul 2, 2019

I’m a little torn on this. I don’t want them to have to face the BBEG with 5 HP and no spells left, but it absolutely breaks immersion to spend eight hours camped on the doorstep of the BBEG. If they’re just taking a short rest, I’d probably let them. But a long rest…maybe you shouldn’t be alpha-striking every single encounter.

Ultimately, I will let the PCs do whatever they want in this sort of situation, but there’s going to be consequences.

Paul Farquhar · Jul 2, 2019

I'm planning a climactic raid for the climax of a current campaign. The party is likely to be pretty drained by the time they reach the lair of the Big Bad. The Big Bad is very badass. However, there will be a battle raging outside, so it wouldn't really make sense for the party to pause or their allies will be killed.

Any suggestions?

iserith · Jul 2, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
I'm planning a climactic raid for the climax of a current campaign. The party is likely to be pretty drained by the time they reach the lair of the Big Bad. The Big Bad is very badass. However, there will be a battle raging outside, so it wouldn't really make sense for the party to pause or their allies will be killed.

Any suggestions?

Make clear the risks and trade-offs inherent in the challenge, then let the players make their own decisions. Err on the side of giving "too much" information rather than too little. Use whatever contrivances you can think of to impart that info in a way that makes sense in context. Perhaps a grizzled veteran adventurer faced such a challenge before and made the mistake of doing battle with the villain while spent - the resulting battle cost him his legs and what could have been a lucrative career in adventuring. Or whatever.

What it sounds like to me is that they have to plan on conserving resources, which is not an unreasonable proposition in my view considering the game has at least some focus on resource management. Now you just have to remind them of this so that they're not operating under a different assumption. What follows will thus be fair, even if they fail.

Paul Farquhar · Jul 2, 2019

iserith said:
Make clear the risks and trade-offs inherent in the challenge, then let the players make their own decisions. Err on the side of giving "too much" information rather than too little. Use whatever contrivances you can think of to impart that info in a way that makes sense in context. Perhaps a grizzled veteran adventurer faced such a challenge before and made the mistake of doing battle with the villain while spent - the resulting battle cost him his legs and what could have been a lucrative career in adventuring. Or whatever.

What it sounds like to me is that they have to plan on conserving resources, which is not an unreasonable proposition in my view considering the game has at least some focus on resource management. Now you just have to remind them of this so that they're not operating under a different assumption. What follows will thus be fair, even if they fail.

My players are experienced enough to understand the risks. The difficulty is in coming up with a choice other than "let your friends die" and "you die, then your friends die" that makes sense for the story. The only other things I can come up with so far with are "all the villain's minions are a pushover" and "you find a McGuffin of single use instant long rest".

iserith · Jul 2, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
My players are experienced enough to understand the risks. The difficulty is in coming up with a choice other than "let your friends die" and "you die, then your friends die" that makes sense for the story. The only other things I can come up with so far with are "all the villain's minions are a pushover" and "you find a McGuffin of single use instant long rest".

Can they take short rests? If so, they should be able to do 6 to 8 medium or hard challenges with a couple of short rests. If the villain challenge is deadly, then reduce the number of preceding encounters accordingly, perhaps setting it to 4 to 6 medium or hard challenges followed by a deadly encounter. If the players are experienced, this seems doable.

Sacrosanct · Jul 2, 2019

The answer to this dilemma is always, “what would said bad guys do in a real life scenario?” I.e, it’s the DMs job treat the creatures as intelligent beings in accordance with their instinctual behavior and intelligence score (INT is there not just for spell casting, it has a big effect on how creatures should behave)

Draegn · Jul 2, 2019

"Camping outside the BBEG's door?" Assuming the party has reached the "last" room of the dungeon it would depend upon the intelligence of the BBEG. Something like a jelly cube might sit there, owl bears make noise trying to find a way out, a wizard would have some escape magic.

HJFudge · Jul 2, 2019

So I guess it comes down to 2 things:

1) Do I let the party do it? Yes, absolutely they can decide to rest right outside the door of the BBEG. Of course, its extremely unwise and will lead to consequences. But can they do it? Of course!

2) If this situation occurs, it is most likely because I did not properly pace the preceding events. Of course, I do not do a lot of 'dungeon crawls', so it is unlikely they've just got done clearing out every room for the sake of clearing out every room in the dungeon.

I think in order to avoid such a scenario, it is usually best to put time pressure on the party. A super simple example would be that the BBEG is about to cast some Doom Summoning Ritual that, if complete, will spell DOOM! Then create further tension by, as they get closer to their goal, showing how the ritual is nearing completion. If done right, the party wont ever suggest resting right before the door.

And if they do? Well, ritual complete. Consequences occur. Hard mission loss with long lasting penalties for the rest of the campaign (and possibly even campaign loss if its bad enough).