D&D General The Evolution of Tieflings in D&D: Interviews with Zeb Cook and Colin McComb

I'd certainly use the PHB entry and the expansions in other products as the basis for the more diverse Tieflings in 5e, I've given a little thought to how one might handle variant abilities. Of course the appearance and origins of the characters are up to the player's personal choice.

It's very useful to hear from Zeb Cook and McComb about Tielfings, but I think Monte Cook's opinions also matters a lot on the subject.
 

Imaro

Legend
This makes it look like you didn’t read what you were quoting. 4e didn’t change anything to fit a common unified cosmology. The worlds were still separate. You’ve completely misread or ignored what I said.

Seriously I'm the one not reading? Nunerous changes were made to various settings to bring them in line with the world Axis cosmology... Quick question... Did Dark Sun have a Feywild in 2e? It does in 4e. That's changing the cosmology


I literally told you that I did so. Seriously read posts before replying to them.

So you did, and I am reading the posts... funny how we searched the same things and got different results...
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Darksun and Eberron had separate cosmologies, at least according to their source material.

Athas was tenuously connected to the D&D great wheel via dimensional travel. Planescape sorta tried claiming it in their material but TSR had no one directing overall canon and freelancers were doing whatever they wanted towards the end. It's how the got surfing Druids on Athas. Cowabunga.

Some settings should be kept away from the others Darksun being a prime example.

In 2E a deities death could be localized so if Raven Queen killed Nerull it's only applied to Nerath. Option B is treat Nerath as it's own thing a'la what you should do with Darksun and Eberron.

I'm an originalist. If there's contradictions go with the original vs some hacks butchery.

If you want to get away from TSR metaplot rather than retcon things reboot back to the original printing updating the mechanics.
Minimises upsetting people and you won't miss freelancers or new editions lacklustre efforts at adaption.

Doesn't work so well for world's like Krynn that have been blown up a few to many times but Krynn has been awful for a long time now.
 
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Imaro

Legend
That’s your definition of small? Ok. I can see why you think the way you do.

Even with that... absence of tail, blue skin...

EDIT: Also what do you mean you can see why I think the way I do...

EDIT 2:

These, IMO are large horns...

url
images
 
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Aldarc

Legend
Seriously?? I'm not going to break down what each of the 10 subraces are, what they look like count artwork pieces in various WotC books or anything else you're asking for here.
I'm sorry. You said that I was basing my argument on assumptions, which certainly led me to assume that you had not. So let me help summarize some of what I found.

MToF: These eight tiefling subraces do not affect or mention any unique appearance of the tieflings. The subraces affect the secondary ability modifier and the tiefling bonus spells. All tieflings presented here have infernal ancestry. The art consisting of two tieflings is consistent with their art in 4-5e. The writers though do not spend much time (or page count) talking about tieflings in this book, as this section is predominately about Devils, Demons, and the Blood War. Dwarves, elves, halflings, gnomes, and gith get more discussion in this book.

SCAG: Gives the option for variant tieflings in a sidebar. There are four mechanical options. This is less subrace and more alternate racial features. The sidebar says that the appearance can be different, including more Planescape-familiar elements. However, we see no art of this here, and none appears in subsequent publications. Flavorwise, the tieflings are descrbed as having "the blood of fiends" and we are told that not all are of "the blood of Asmodeus." But all have the Mark of Asmodeus and they are described as being of infernal descent, even the non-Asmodeus ones. Their art (pp. cover, 119, 120, 128) is wholly consistent with the 4e art.

XGtE: I checked Xanathar's Guide, because it's the other book of player splat options and one that many players will see down the line. The tiefling art (pp. 13, 33, 37, 49, 56, 95, 127) is again more reminiscent of 4e and 5e PHB art for the tieflings.

Saltmarsh: The tiefling art (pp. 19, 49) are mostly consistent with 4e art. There is one tiefling (p. 92) that does not appear to have a tail. Does this tail-less tiefling represent the unbridled seething dissatisfaction and discontentment with the 4e-style tieflings? :confused:

This honestly suggests to me that tieflings have moved substantially towards their 4e incarnation than what they were in Planescape. They are infernal and mostly associated with Asmodeus foremost and other Lords of Hell secondarily. They have pronounced horns of varying shapes, human feet and legs, and a tail (apart from that one).

Or let's ask this question from another angle: What unique traces of the pre-4e Tiefling are in 5e Tieflings?

Again I am interested in the player base and whether they are choosing to play either in appearance or ability selection the base tiefling vs. the variants. Fan art, doesn't give me that info... the fact that WotC with the data they have (which I'm pretty sure is more rigorous than the amount of fan art from a google search)published alternate tieflings in not just 1 but 2 of the limited sourcebooks they've put out for 5e tells me that they were pretty sure there was demand for them.
And are they? But should we construe this as a demand for planescape-style tieflings or a dissatisfaction with 4e tieflings when they are just different flavors of diabolic tieflings? MToF basically just creates one tiefling subrace per ring of the Nine Hells. They're still diabolic, implied to have links with Asmodeus (all roads lead to Asmodeus in Hell), and largely depicted in appearance as they were in 4-5e.

And fan art you googled doesn't give us any data about the prevailing trend of what's actually being played in D&D... as I said earlier it's just silly, it could even be influenced by your browser history and preferences...
There are other websites with fanart, but I nevertheless suspect that your Google image search showed you much the same that mine did: a hyper-majority of tiefling art had them more congruent in appearance with 4e+ era.
 


Hussar

Legend
Even with that... absence of tail, blue skin...

EDIT: Also what do you mean you can see why I think the way I do...

EDIT 2:

These, IMO are large horns...

url
images

Well, considering in the pic you posted, the horns are almost as long as his head, I'd say they are pretty big. And the color thing, well, whatever to be honest. The tiefling in the PHB isn't that far from a dark blue.

Let's not forget, THIS was a 2e Tiefling:

latest


Just as much as any Di Terlizzi art.
 

oreofox

Explorer
I prefer the 2e/3e/PF versions of tieflings (and aasimar) compared to the 4e/5e versions. I know we had a thread about that already. Personally, the more modern D&D interpretation is just a bit too much for me. It screams "edgelord" because every warlock seems to be one, and that class fights with rogue for edgiest of edgelords. Yes I know it is because of the +2 Cha the race gets. This is why I divorced such things from races (all base races get +1 to player's choice, and they get the +2 from their class in an ability relevant to the class, such as barbarians give a +2 to Str or Con, Wizards give +2 to Int or Dex, and so on. Also, PCs cap at 18 instead of 20).

As for art, I was never really a fan of DiTerlizzi's art (my sister absolutely loves it), but I find it miles better than 2 certain artists from 3e, and quite a number of images in 5e. The Asmodean appearance is just too much, and most of the official art is fugly as heck. Luckily, most fan art I see of people's tiefling characters really only have the tail and horns of some sort, maybe even red skin. But they typically end up looking like the draenei from Warcraft.
 

I don't think most want a Tiefling with a butt on the forehead because of the massive horns that a lot of the 4e and later art has. Even if it's a more standard or common look, I think "Sexy Devil Halloween costume" look is probably closer to what many want.

The 5e PHB entry did take a small step back from the 4e appearance in what it describes. Though I do realize the 2e's Planewalkers Handbook suggestion of roll 1d4 times on the d100 table of random appearance traits is a probability of producing a Tiefling who's appearance trait matches the PHB entry. That table also had the trait "6 fingers (including thumb)" which could be noteworthy since it might imply having the Demon Lord Grazz't in the bloodline/background.
 

dave2008

Legend
I don't think most want a Tiefling with a butt on the forehead because of the massive horns that a lot of the 4e and later art has. Even if it's a more standard or common look, I think "Sexy Devil Halloween costume" look is probably closer to what many want.

Why do you think that? Most evidence i have seen lately suggest otherwise. When I see new Tiefling fan art, it usually mimics 4e/5e. But, that is just anecdotal. I have no further evidence to suggest one way or the other, do you?
 
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