D&D 5E Why don't everything scale by proficiency bonus?

Garthanos · Jul 11, 2019

FrogReaver said:
Maybe or maybe your telling me he didn't learn enough about his own religion in 20 years to even get a +1 bonus...

That must be it.

Cause the game isnt real life and confusing it with that turns your action adventure wizard into an insane pseudoscience scholar of some sort who sees things.

Slit518 · Jul 11, 2019

FrogReaver said:
Once you realize you can come up with a fictional character that pokes holes in any system then those examples become meaningless to you. Seriously, you can do what you just did to any system. I could make a character that uses my suggested level scaling and show D&D as it is can't accommodate that character.

The crucial question is which system is more typical of adventurers in general. That's the best we are going to do (at least with a "fair" character creation method). I tend to think the typical adventurers get better at basic adventuring tasks. Do you disagree? Do you think Tim the Wizard is representative of the typical adventurer, or even the typical wizard?

(by the way I'm all for a tacking on a module to my proposed one that lets you make some skills not scale with level in exchange for extra scaling in the same number. This helps with character concepts a lot).

Hi, my name is Barry the Fighter!

That is correct, you heard me right, Barry the Fighter.

I wear platemail, and tons of it. Not just your average platemail, no, I wear what I like to call, "Double Plate!"

I am not good in stealthy situations because I wont dare part with my double plate.

So, because of this, I get left behind on sneaking missions and am told to wait outside, or at least wait for the signal.

I'm also pretty bashful & shy, and don't talk to people much.

Last time I talked to somebody, they raised prices on us at the bar!

So, because of this little mishap, I let the Bard take care of all the conversation work.

One day I met this Wizard, his name was Tim, he was a real nice fella.

Not a lick of muscle on that boy, I tell ya!

Tim traded me some potions for some of my jerky.

I make real great jerky!

Oh, one other thing before I go.

Since I don't part with my double plate, I also can't tumble worth crap, squeeze through tight spaces, or balance really well on slippery ice.

Did I mention I love my double plate?!?

And as you guessed, Barry was a simpleton with a 25 AC just from his double plate.

Barry had the envy of all the other fighters in the form of protection, but not in burden, as double plate weighed double the weight!

Garthanos · Jul 11, 2019

Caricatures abound totally must be utterly the most common

doctorbadwolf · Jul 11, 2019

FrogReaver said:
Cleric Bob can't understand how he's no better at Religion than the day he started adventuring 20 years ago.

If he studied at all, he does know more. That can be adjudicated using Downtime activities and DM adjusted assumptions of what information requires no check to recall for Bob.

But there is is no reason he should be more knowledgeable about religions and religious history and myths just by virtue of having travelled and gotten in some fights.

Gadget · Jul 11, 2019

To answer the OP, two words: Bounded Accuracy. Other editions had the scaling everything by level and they either produced a mad dash towards ever higher numbers (and vastly increased discrepancy between the “haves” and the “have nots”), or the “treadmill” of the numbers increasing but things staying pretty much the same. 5e has tried to make lower level threats relevant longer and with greater numbers and Bounded Accuracy is a part of that. Combine that with a design goal of keeping things relatively straightforward and less complex, and we have our current system, more or less.

That’s not to say it could not have been done better or there can’t be improvements. Weak saves become quite a liability as levels rise, and it wouldn’t hurt to give characters a better way to expand their proficiencies. Yet some would say that the former could be seen as a feature and there are ways to overcome the later (feats, down time training, ASI).

What I would not want is a more complex, 3x way of feats and skill point allocation for “gaming” the system. Congratulations, you have +25 in “use rope” skill, you’ve won D&D!

Shiroiken · Jul 11, 2019

I wish I could sticky the following to the start of this inane thread. tl;dr version

OP: I don't like the current system, and feel it's unrealistic

Dissenting Commenters: It works out just fine mechanically, and there are some real world justifications

OP plus allied commenters: I still don't like the current system, and feel it's unrealistic

Repeat ad nasuem, adding various attacks/insults, devolving into strange caricature characters that supposedly prove one side or the other.

The simple solution, that should probably have been pointed out about 10 pages back: [MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION] feel free to houserule your game to add a modifier to non-proficient checks, attacks, and saves. It's probably unnecessary, but if it's what you feel is best for your game, then do it. Customizing 5E is probably the best aspect of it, since it works on a very solid chassis that is fairly modular.

Azzy · Jul 11, 2019

Fenris-77 said:
It does bother me that adding skills is no longer a part of character advancement outside of taking a feat. One of the things I enjoyed about 3.5 was adding skills to my character. I'm also not a big fan of mechanical reasons for chosing backgrounds, for example to make sure you get stealth or perception.

Why not just add a new skill alongside the standard four ASIs? Every class gets those so it's even across the board, and it has the merit of not needing to change anything else about the rules. Heck, why not just make every ASI stats plus a new a skill - the fighter could use the help anyway.

I house-ruled something similar: Gain one additional Skill Proficiency, Tool Proficiency, Weapon Proficiency, or Language every 3 Levels.

It was cribbed from 2e's handling of proficiencies, just manhandled a little.

DND_Reborn · Jul 11, 2019

Sacrosanct said:
It's not really a bad example. In my world travels over the decades, I've been to a lot of concerts. From middle of nowhere Weird Al at a fairground concert, to 20,000 filled stadiums, to Rockfest, to 4 day long concerts in Amsterdam. A LOT of concerts. And you know what? I still don't have any clue how to play a guitar.

But I bet you can play a mean air-guitar!

Slit518 said:
Hi, my name is Tim, and I am a Wizard. My goal is to become really powerful in the ancient arts and learn old, powerful magics.

Wait?! Do you know about King Arthur's search for the Holy Grail while riding unreal horses as your lackies "clippity-clop" some coconut shells to sound like hooves? Did you ever encounter a crazy, killer rabbit with viscous pointy things?

FrogReaver said:
Cleric Bob can't understand how he's no better at Religion than the day he started adventuring 20 years ago.

Didn't Cleric Bob form a foundation for increasing his understanding of Religion at level 1 by gaining proficiency then? If so, assuming he gained at least 4 levels in those 20 years, he would be better.

Azzy · Jul 11, 2019

FrogReaver said:
So you all don’t believe that the level 20 adventurer tends to be naturally more perceptive than the level 1?

Not by pure nature of having more levels, no. If said fighter put actual effort into becoming more perceptive (higher Wis, gaining proficiency, or what not), then sure.

Sacrosanct · Jul 11, 2019

dnd4vr said:
But I bet you can play a mean air-guitar!

I actually suck, but my son is apparently a natural. He was 6 years old in the bathtub. I had the radio playing, and Hellraiser from Ozzy started. I look inside the bathroom and he's standing up, butt nekkid, playing an air guitar and head banging like he had been doing it for years. It was a proud dad moment