OSR OSR ... Feel the Love! Why People Like The Old School

Monayuris · Jul 12, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
The question was why do you like the Old School.

I've been gaming since '80. I'm Old School, I wasn't expelled that I'm aware of.

I gave my reasons why I liked going back and playing an old game.

I'm being called out for it. I don't begrudge anyone their reasons, and haven't said a word in that regard (I /could/ a lot of nonsense gets tossed around when people get defensive, but that doesn't strike me as the point of the thread, which sounded, to me, like it would be positive).
I've just been defending my hard-won (by not dying - and that wasn't always easy) right to some nostalgia.

In particular, if we want some subtle distinctions, that brand of nostalgia you get when you have the chance to go back and re-capture something you didn't get to do nearly /enough/ of back in the day. Which is why my favorite things to paleo-game aren't 1e, even though I still love it, warts & all, or Champions!, which I played & ran a /lot/ in the 80s, but the games I was interested in but didn't get to play as much as I'd like, like RQII and Gamma World. Also probably why I'd rather dust off the actual game, than go auditioning retro-clones.

I was playing D&D back in the '80s. I started with the Red Box (Mentzer version) then moved on to AD&D with my friends. The thing was, I was 10 when I started (and yes, we did play in my best friend's basement and yes, I did bicycle home afterwards... no demogorgons though... lol).

The interesting thing is that I have come to revisit the old games from that era and now, as an adult I am running these games. It has been kind of a revelation as I realized that as a kid I probably wasn't playing the same game as I'm playing now. We glossed over a lot of things back then that on reading now I understand a whole lot better.

One example is that, as a kid, I didn't understand the whole weapon bonus vs AC thing (mainly because then I didn't understand that AC was an actual fixed value that represents a specific combination of armor and shield). We probably didn't use a whole lot of other stuff from AD&D as well (we probably more played Basic with AD&D classes).

It was a retro-clone that actually pointed me back to the OSR games. I then started digging back into the older editions and started finding that after reading the rules as they were written, I found that I actually liked what I read.

My rediscovery of old school gaming has revitalized my D&D gaming, as an adult.

Although I mainly stick to the retro-clones for the actual rules, I use my copy of B/X for dungeon design and reference... for all intents and purposes I play B/X but with ascending AC and to hit bonuses.

Monayuris · Jul 12, 2019

Sacrosanct said:
I wouldn't call 5e a retroclone because it has too many elements from recent editions, but it certainly brought back some of the reasons given upthread that can emulate OSR games pretty well if you want. For example, two things were fast chargen and statblocks in modules.

here is a 5e PC of mine, and a screen shot of a 5e adventure I had written. These are two aspects of OSR that I really prefer over modern editions (easy and brief character sheets and stat blocks inside the encounter description as opposed to looking up the monster in the MM every time).

View attachment 107506
View attachment 107507

Cool formatting... is that adventure published?

I was pleasantly surprised when I realized I could fit my 1st level 5e wizard on an index card - but I think the problem is can I do the same with a 7th level wizard?

I think 5E does indeed carry over some of the elements of OSR games. Of course, it also has to provide for elements for other editions as well, so it can't be 100% OSR. I'm happy that I can take 5e and strip out what I need to make it fit closer to my needs. I run it quite frequently.

My approach has been to run 5e for people in the old school style and then suggest an actual old school game to see if they'll like it.

Zardnaar · Jul 12, 2019

Main reason is no Gnome Paladin's dual wielding rapiers.

I've run 2E for modern gamers and they've enjoyed it. There's a 16 yo at the FLGS running 5E Planescape.

Mechanics not the best, playstyle is still fun.

Tony Vargas · Jul 13, 2019

...move along.

lowkey13 · Jul 13, 2019

*Deleted by user*

Monayuris · Jul 13, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
I said no such thing, and don't see how what I said could be easily misinterpreted.

Here are the relevant bits:

I think I'm pretty clear.

But you lot are jumping all over me, saying that what I'm experiencing /can't/ be nostalgia for some reason. That's nuts.

What's so terrible about being nostalgic that you can't allow anyone with similar past experiences to admit to it? What's the agenda here that I'm not seeing?

Nostalgia is fine as a reason to get into the old school games. Nostalgia led me back to OSR after a lot of experience with every edition of D&D.

I think the issue is that there are a lot of arguments made that nostalgia is the only reason to play older edition games. It is clear you are not making that claim at all. But a lot of discussion about older editions get mired in the whole nostalgia element. It is often used as a means to deride those who enjoy the older edition rules.

There are a lot of people who make posts that call older edition rules broken or obsolete and that the only reason to play these games is nostalgia. These opinions are of course subjective and have no value.

I think when nostalgia is proposed as a reason for enjoying older games, it sets alarm bells off. It tends to be considered an argument in bad faith.

It is akin to the OSR as the “It’s just World of Warcraft “ is to 4E. A very loaded statement.

Sacrosanct · Jul 13, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
I said no such thing, and don't see how what I said could be easily misinterpreted.

Here are the relevant bits:

I think I'm pretty clear.

But you lot are jumping all over me, saying that what I'm experiencing /can't/ be nostalgia for some reason. That's nuts.

What's so terrible about being nostalgic that you can't allow anyone with similar past experiences to admit to it? What's the agenda here that I'm not seeing?

Post #10 is you responding to lowkey13 saying he likes OSR due to other reasons beyond nostalgia with “yeah you do, just by a different name if you don’t like the word nostalgia”. This despite the fact that the reasons he gave have nothing to do with trying to reclaim a historical good feeling (which is what nostalgia is defined as), but instead how the rules and game design support his current preferences (which nostalgia very much isn’t defined as)

So if what you just said was true, why are you disagreeing and arguing with him when he made that statement?

Zardnaar · Jul 13, 2019

I don't care if people don't like OSR games. I play 5E as that's what everyone plays. Happy the play OSR and would sign up.

Not going to stand on a soapbox and claim it's the greatest thing ever. Don't like it that's fine don't play. My D&D KGB aren't going to turn put a gun to your head and drag you off to the OSR gulag and make you play.

It's not for everyone and that's fine.

Monayuris · Jul 13, 2019

So just to keep the topic going... If you are running an old school game, has anything cool happened in your game? Has there been any element in the old school rules that helped develop interesting game play?

In my games, cool stuff always happened as a result of favorable Reaction Rolls vs. monsters. Like the time the party encountered a bunch of ogres working out in the dungeon. A favorable reaction on top of them being dim-witted allowed the party to trick the BRO-gres into helping them get past a couple dungeon rooms.

What would have probably have been just another fight, became a very entertaining session.

Zardnaar · Jul 13, 2019

My cool story.

We were playing X8 Drums on Fire Mountain. There was a puzzle involving carvings of dancing figures.
To open the door you have to reenact the dance sequence and fill in the missing blanks.

Missing blank type puzzles were also in 80s game books I played when I was 10 or so.

Anyway I printed out the dance sections and gave it to my players. One of them was a bit more into and I said something like "this adventure was for 10 and 12 year olds in the 80s see if you can figure it out".

He did after a few minutes. "I got it you have to do the dance".

My response was "well off you go, you want the door open or not".

It's not really something you see in modern D&D.