D&D 5E Death and 0 Max HP

jaelis · Jul 14, 2019

Sword of Spirit said:
1) Greater restoration on a dead body straight up can’t work because they aren’t a valid target.

This is the spot where I would go with rulings (and IMO RAI) over rules.

Although this twitter thread suggests Crawford would play it as you suggest, cast GR right after raise dead.

DND_Reborn · Jul 14, 2019

Sorcerers Apprentice said:
But there's no rule that you need more than 0 hp to be alive, so a Revifiy or Raise Dead cast on the corpse will restore them to life with 0 HP, and then it's time for Aid.

Thinking... ok, so I had to recheck Revivify and Raise Dead and I can hear my DM now:

"Since both spells return the target corpse to life with 1 hit point, they won't work since you cannot have more hit points than your maximum. Her maximum is 0 until she finishes a long rest. She can't finish a long rest because she is dead. And since Aid can only be cast on a creature (a living target, not an object such as a corpse), it won't work while she is dead, so can't help her overcome the restriction placed on her due to the other spells returning her with 1 hit point."

I am pretty sure that is how our DM will rule it, anyway.

As we finished the session, the NPC cleric explained "perhaps" a great restoration spell will remove the power of the vampire's bite and then she can be raised, but it was beyond his power. Honestly, as others have pointed out, RAW even Greater Restoration won't work for the same reason Aid won't--because she is now an object, not a creature. We might find a powerful priest and have them explain we need something greater even... who knows?

MarkB · Jul 14, 2019

What this really comes down to is, how long does your DM want to keep one player's character out of the game? They need to either offer you a solution so that you can work towards bringing the character back in, or let you know that there isn't a solution so that the player can bring in their next character.

Sword of Spirit · Jul 15, 2019

jaelis said:
This is the spot where I would go with rulings (and IMO RAI) over rules.

Absolutely. I figured I’d have to come up with a ruling (though for me it wouldn’t be to allow greater restoration to work on a dead body, because that breaks a greater rule than alternative options in my mind), but after a closer examination realized that it actually can work as a fairly strong interpretation of RAW if greater restoration follows rather than precedes the raise dead.

Although this twitter thread suggests Crawford would play it as you suggest, cast GR right after raise dead.

Yeah. Not completely the same, but really close.

Oofta · Jul 15, 2019

S'mon said:
Once they're Raised the Gentle Repose would not be in effect.

They've been infected with vampirism, a magical disease, so they come back vampirised. I'd have them turn into a vampire later, as happened to my first PC in ES IV: Oblivion. She completed the game without feeding, then after failing to find a cure she walked into the sunlight.

Nowhere does it state in the rules that the victim has been infected with a magic disease. Let me quote it again:
"The target dies if this effect reduces its hit point maximum to 0. A humanoid slain in this way and then buried in the ground rises the following night as a vampire spawn under the vampire's control"

No mention of disease. In addition, they need to be buried in the ground before they come back as a vampire spawn. As long as the PC is not buried they cannot be transformed into a vampire. In addition you can't have it both ways. Either they're dead and the gentle repose is still in effect and they can't become undead or they're alive and can be healed after a greater restoration. If they're alive they don't turn into a vampire.

That's my take on it anyway, if it ever comes up at your table feel free to run it however you want. I don't think it would be fun to tell a player that their PC is in effect irrevocably dead because of bad luck.

MarkB · Jul 15, 2019

[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] I agree with your interpretation, in particular because of the vampire's "chained to the grave" aspect - they are fundamentally tied to the place where they were buried. No burial, no vampire.

Sword of Spirit · Jul 15, 2019

Plus, vampirism has never, in any edition of D&D, been considered a disease.

Maxperson · Jul 15, 2019

Sorcerers Apprentice said:
But there's no rule that you need more than 0 hp to be alive, so a Revifiy or Raise Dead cast on the corpse will restore them to life with 0 HP, and then it's time for Aid.

The rule is, though, that you die at 0 max hit points from the blood loss of the vampire bite. That 0 max hit points is still in effect the moment the Raise Dead is cast. The PC would just die again.

LordEntrails · Jul 15, 2019

Maxperson said:
The rule is, though, that you die at 0 max hit points from the blood loss of the vampire bite. That 0 max hit points is still in effect the moment the Raise Dead is cast. The PC would just die again.

Or would they just be in a comma? i.e. unconscious and unable to become conscious because they can't get (normal) hit points?

Hence why I might rule Raise Dead followed by Aid or other temporary hit points would get the character conscious, then either a long rest (if the tempo HP last that long) or Greater Restoration so that they can then take a long rest and regain their hit point max.

Maxperson · Jul 15, 2019

LordEntrails said:
Or would they just be in a comma? i.e. unconscious and unable to become conscious because they can't get (normal) hit points?

Coma isn't a condition, so I would think it would be death. They still meet all the necessary conditions to die. Drained to 0 max hit points by the bite.

Hence why I might rule Raise Dead followed by Aid or other temporary hit points would get the character conscious, then either a long rest (if the tempo HP last that long) or Greater Restoration so that they can then take a long rest and regain their hit point max.

I can see that and I wouldn't argue such a ruling in a game. I'm just not sure if I would go that way or not as DM. I definitely would not allow temporary hit points to work. They specify that they don't stop unconsciousness or stabilize you, and that latter portion would keep me from allowing it to keep the PC alive. The max hit points from Aid are different, though, and I might allow that.