What it's like Reading SF from the 50's

Hussar · Jul 18, 2019

MarkB said:
And I've yet to see an example of the non-binary androgynoid.

To be totally fair, what would be the point? Why would you make a very realistic humanoid robot where you have to give it gender based features, only to then blur those features to remove any gender markers? That seems a lot of expense for very little gain.

I suppose the Japanese robot Pepper might qualify.

pepper-follow-me-application-1-robot-perpetual-license.jpg

MarkB · Jul 18, 2019

Hussar said:
To be totally fair, what would be the point? Why would you make a very realistic humanoid robot where you have to give it gender based features, only to then blur those features to remove any gender markers? That seems a lot of expense for very little gain.

I could definitely see some people being more comfortable with a robot that is both recognisably human-like and also not specifically male or female. As an addition to a household or workplace, it could better integrate into social groups without any gender-based expectations or concerns.

Hussar · Jul 18, 2019

MarkB said:
I could definitely see some people being more comfortable with a robot that is both recognisably human-like and also not specifically male or female. As an addition to a household or workplace, it could better integrate into social groups without any gender-based expectations or concerns.

I suppose it depends on how humanlike you want to get. Are we talking something like what I posted above or something that would fit into Blade Runner?

Then again Legion had the Vermillion androids. Definitely androgynous.

Deuce Traveler · Jul 18, 2019

There were plenty of female science fiction writers in the 1950s, and they were quite successful despite not getting as much attention as their male counterparts. Personally, I found Ursula LeGuin a much more entertaining writer and they were contemporaries of one another. Recenty, I've also have been reading CJ Cherryh's Morgaine Cycle and found it equal to Poul Anderson's action-packed works. The women writers did not get the respect due to them from publishers, but I recommend reading the "Women of Wonder" collections put together by Pamela Sargent for a good idea of what you might have missed through the decades.

Also, I love Heinlein and am tired of the bad rap that he gets today. His views on women might not make him popular in today's culture, but he was downright progressive when compared to similar authors of the time. Heinlein's women were often portrayed taking action and notable for their intelligence, bravery, and coolness under fire. Then you read something like E.E. Smith's Lensmen series and the portrayal of women is cringe-worthy. Aasimov has a few embarrassing moments himself in his writings.

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 18, 2019

Hussar said:
To be totally fair, what would be the point? Why would you make a very realistic humanoid robot where you have to give it gender based features, only to then blur those features to remove any gender markers? That seems a lot of expense for very little gain.

Well, I personally see the Heavenly Host from Doctor Who as a missed opportunity in that regard. While they are made to look like angels, their faces are mostly fairly masculine, while angels are supposed to be androgynous.

So in this case, “the point” would be making them more closely resemble what they are emulating.

I could also see androgynous androids as being perceived as less threatening to both men and women. (Some, anyway...)

Hell...an androgynous (possibly even childlike) robot could be a good espionage agent.

Hussar · Jul 18, 2019

Being more progressive than E E Smith is like being Valedictorian at summer school.

Blue · Jul 18, 2019

MarkB said:
I could definitely see some people being more comfortable with a robot that is both recognisably human-like and also not specifically male or female. As an addition to a household or workplace, it could better integrate into social groups without any gender-based expectations or concerns.

People assign genders to all sorts of objects based on perceived qualities. I think that with a human-like robot people would do that even more-so. That human-looking androids will be culturally assigned genders by how it interacts with us (both content and how it does so - tone, body language, forcefulness, etc.)

Not that the idea is bad, just probably easier to do in soemthing that looks more android and less human.

MarkB · Jul 18, 2019

Blue said:
People assign genders to all sorts of objects based on perceived qualities. I think that with a human-like robot people would do that even more-so. That human-looking androids will be culturally assigned genders by how it interacts with us (both content and how it does so - tone, body language, forcefulness, etc.)

That doesn't seem like a downside. With an androgynous robot, people can assign whichever gender to it they feel most comfortable with.

Ed Laprade · Jul 19, 2019

Hussar said:
Being more progressive than E E Smith is like being Valedictorian at summer school.

Well, he did get better right at the end. And even before that there was Children of the Lens, which was always supposed to be the ultimate book in the series. (In fact, it was supposed to be THE book. All the rest were just background material!) In it, he made it clear that the five kids were going to enter into an incestuous relationship to create the next race of galactic guardians, a pretty much taboo subject at the time.