D&D General Does Your Fantasy Race Really Matter In Game? (The Gnome Problem)

MGibster · Jul 16, 2019

Greenstone.Walker said:
Players don't want to play "one of the races". They want to play "whatever race you've not included."

Me: I'm running a game of Vampire. Who wants to play?
Player: Can I be a werewolf?
Me: :rant:

My thinking is that just because a race or class or option is in a book, that doesn't mean it's necessarily allowed in a game. The people crafting the game world should only add the classes, races, etc that fit the game world, and no more.

Sure. But I've never participated in a D&D game where one of the main races from the PHB wasn't available as a player choice. I would personally find it odd if someone told me I couldn't play a dwarf in a D&D game.

Tony Vargas · Jul 16, 2019

MGibster said:
Me: I'm running a game of Vampire. Who wants to play?
Player: Can I be a werewolf?

Yes. Play a Gangrel. Take the Flaw "Twisted Upbringing."

GreenTengu · Jul 16, 2019

MGibster said:
Me: I'm running a game of Vampire. Who wants to play?
Player: Can I be a werewolf?
Me:

Can I be a member of Clan Tzimisce without the Vicissitude curse that is cool with the Camarilla but maintains the general "mad scientist" concept?
Or how about a Lasombra Antitribu?

Beleriphon · Jul 16, 2019

GreenTengu said:
Gnomes became the Jews, and it was all too obvious if you know negative Jewish stereotypes in 1st and 2nd edition.
Big noses? Check.
Obsessed with gold and gems? Check.
Intellectual with little physical power? Check.
Could in many ways be described as rat-like? Check.
Insisted on constantly wearing funny hats? Check.

I am sure there are many other traits that could be added to this when the race was even further expanded on.

Which makes it all the more ironically unnerving that the Gnomes are the first race that people want to exterminate from the game because they don't see what benefit they bring and can't figure out what to do with them.

I'm glad somebody mentioned this before I got to the end of the thread. Gnomes originally were D&D Jews, and not a particularly flattering depiction. I'm actually surprised there isn't a reference somewhere to gnomes making golems.

As for how I use gnomes I like to play up the idea of natural inquisitiveness. They're curious to the point of nosey, over familial with everybody, constantly want to know how things work, and work hard to make new things. I liken them to Leonardo da Vinci meets Nosey-Old-Lady-Down-the-Street. They just have to know what is going on and how things actually work and then use that information for something new. That's why they can speak with animals, they learned how to do it by just continuing to poke at that thing until they figured it out.

ccs · Jul 16, 2019

GreenTengu said:
Can I be a member of Clan Tzimisce without the Vicissitude curse that is cool with the Camarilla but maintains the general "mad scientist" concept?
Or how about a Lasombra Antitribu?

The correct answer is: NO.

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 16, 2019

Ahhh, V:tM. From a while back:

Dannyalcatraz said:
I was part of a GURPS: Vampire playtest in which my character was a detective who was "embraced" by a powerful Brujah. He arose, superhumanly fast and strong, and impervious to most damage. He went mad, mad as a Malkavian.

Clearly, he was a superhero...and thus, Major Mosquito was born...

oreofox · Jul 16, 2019

Speaking of negative stereotype origins of dwarves and gnomes, I noticed a bit of a trend about 15 years back when I started to really get into making my D&D world. All the PHB races were "civilized" and lived in cities and villages, and were rather European. The evil races (such as orcs, goblins, gnolls, ogres, etc) were uncivilized brutes that were typically stupid and lived in small groupings of huts with a chieftain as leader, being "savages" that the Europeans called the non-Europeans.

Noticing this, and that they were kill on sight monsters, made me change things around. I don't have "enemy races" that are kill on sight with no guilt (except for humans, but they are functionally extinct in my world), but instead take a bit more Eberron take, where not all orcs and goblins are bad, while not all non-dark skinned elves and dwarves are good.

Kurotowa · Jul 16, 2019

Celebrim said:
The PC's tried to get entry into a certain large town. One character was a half-elf with a very large bear companion. The customs officer cheerfully told the character that they would be responsible for all damage inflicted by their pets and to not leave it alone in public, but no big deal.

One of the PC's was a hobgoblin. Entry positively refused until one of the other PC's told the customs agent that the hobgoblin was his man-servant with very excellent references and name dropped that formerly he had worked for a very prominent wizard. At that point the customs official agreed to allow the hobgoblin entry, but angrily complained about what this thing might do to their lovely town and the consequences that might happen if it did.

At which point one of the PC's leaned over to the hobgoblin and whispered, "They consider you lower than the bear."

Kudos to you for doing this. What the DM chooses to give narrative attention does so much to determine what's important and what isn't in a game. For all those times when a player doesn't play a non-human any differently, how often was it because the NPCs never bring it up and the DM brushes off any attempt to play it up as a minor side detail to be handwaved before getting back to the main action? Race can only matter if the DM makes it matter.

As for the issue of fitting all the PC races options into the setting... why do you have to? Not every race has to be a significant, or even local, factor in the featured region. Maybe the race has a low population, with only a few tiny villages in a remote location. Maybe the PC is far from home, a stranger in a strange land from across the ocean. Maybe the PC is really far from home and isn't even native to the plane or time period. If the player and DM are able to concoct an acceptable backstory that doesn't violate the campaign concept, the sky's the limit.

Seramus · Jul 16, 2019

GreenTengu said:
Can I be a member of Clan Tzimisce without the Vicissitude curse that is cool with the Camarilla but maintains the general "mad scientist" concept?
Or how about a Lasombra Antitribu?

Those are not even clans anymore. You’re 15 years out of date.

Shadowdweller · Jul 16, 2019

The problem with the "nobody plays gnomes" argument, of course, is that play experiences are completely subjective. Gnomes are and have always been fairly common in games I play. The races nobody ever plays in my personal (recent) slice of experience? Half-orcs; with comparatively few dragonborn and halflings. Goliaths, humans, dwarves, and sometimes elves are the common "warrior-type" races amongst the games I play. The people I interact with tend NOT to go for the extremely exotic, possibly (and I'm just guessing here) because it's harder empathize with the alien. Contrastingly, half-orcs were quite popular amongst my playgroups back in the days of 3.x and Pathfinder.