D&D 5E Finesse rebalance

Tony Vargas · Jul 16, 2019

Xeviat said:
I've always felt like it should take more time to be switching from melee to a ranged projectile weapon vs. switching from melee to a thrown weapon. ... The rules kind of don't differentiate item manipulation but that is another point to consider.

There is the important act of stringing the bow, you could make that an Action, and require it be un-strung to stow (only slightly arbitrary). If you also impose more plausible RoF on crossbows and slings, that'd about take care of projectile weapons as fast-swapping alternatives to melee.

Xeviat · Jul 16, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
There is the important act of stringing the bow, you could make that an Action, and require it be un-strung to stow (only slightly arbitrary). If you also impose more plausible RoF on crossbows and slings, that'd about take care of projectile weapons as fast-swapping alternatives to melee.

Is there a real reason you wouldn't walk around with your bow strung all the time or your crossbow pre-cocked? Does it slowly ruin the bow?

Tony Vargas · Jul 16, 2019

Xeviat said:
Is there a real reason you wouldn't walk around with your bow strung all the time or your crossbow pre-cocked? Does it slowly ruin the bow?

No expert, but I've heard yes with regard to the bow. But I'm fine with arbitrary.

Medieval rossbows, IIRC, weren't like guns - there's no safety, the bolt can just fall out, etc...

Xeviat · Jul 16, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
No expert, but I've heard yes with regard to the bow. But I'm fine with arbitrary.

Medieval rossbows, IIRC, weren't like guns - there's no safety, the bolt can just fall out, etc...

For crossbow, I meant cocked, not loaded. You'd still have to fit the bolt on.

I'd only assume keeping the bow constantly pulled would wear out the bow. Something interesting to think on for a more "realistic" game that involved a lot of exploration (don't want to walk around the whole day with your shortbow strung and in your hand).

Tony Vargas · Jul 16, 2019

Xeviat said:
I'd only assume keeping the bow constantly pulled would wear out the bow.

I suspect that'd wear you out.

A quick search of some modern archery guidelines, and, yes, you increase wear on a 'natural material' bow if you leave it strung a long time, apparently even a few hours is worth avoiding. Apparently, a strung bow is under tension and a bit dangerous if the string or stave breaks, too. More detail than D&D generally goes into with weapons.

Adventurers working on a D&D time scale could afford to leave a bow strung all day, even if it meant getting a new bow more often - magical bows are probably fine, if they don't just string themselves when you pick 'em up or something, they're probably enchanted to never wear out.
Because magic makes you just better.

Cap'n Kobold · Jul 17, 2019

Xeviat said:
What assumptions? That a character will start with a 16 primary stat and increase it to 18 at 4th level?

There were a lot of assumptions made regarding levels, builds, that the paladin was saving all their spells for smites and that the rogue wasn't dual-wielding in melee etc.

Xeviat said:
Is there a real reason you wouldn't walk around with your bow strung all the time or your crossbow pre-cocked? Does it slowly ruin the bow?

For a bow, keeping it strung for a few hours would not be an issue. You would generally travel with it unstrung though - You're right, keeping it strung for long periods of time would reduce its power.
For a crossbow, keeping it cocked for more than a few minutes would be an issue: the bow part is shorter, thicker, and of a less springy steel than in a modern crossbow. Keeping it under tension for long periods of time would cause it to weaken much more rapidly.

Flamestrike · Jul 17, 2019

Umbran said:
Your analysis has too many assumptions to be useful to me, but thank you for trying.

Alright, can you give a breakdown of the two PCs (Rogue and Paladin) for me, so I can see why this Rogue was leaving the Paladin feeling second rate?

Laurefindel · Jul 17, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
I suspect that'd wear you out.
A quick search of some modern archery guidelines, and, yes, you increase wear on a 'natural material' bow if you leave it strung a long time, apparently even a few hours is worth avoiding. Apparently, a strung bow is under tension and a bit dangerous if the string or stave breaks, too. More detail than D&D generally goes into with weapons.

I like to imagine "what's happening" to my character even when the rules don't go into that level of details. If one insists, stringing a bow could be a simple object interaction, or done as part of "drawing" a stowed bow and remain mechanically inconsequential in all but the most specific conditions.

The arms of a composite bow could be replaced cyclically; i'd imagine that a seasoned adventurer would even carry a few spare. I know I do with my composite recurved. Similarly, it could be part of the "off screen" maintenance of a crossbow to re-bend the prongs once in a while, and replace them when the metal is too fatigued.

The Hierophant · Jul 17, 2019

Horwath said:
We just bumped up all non finesse melee weapon damage dice by one step. Or two...

I.E.
Long sword: 1d8 -> 1d10
Great sword/axe 2d6/1d12 -> 2d8
quarterstaff: 1d6(1d8) -> 1d8(1d10)
great club: 1d8 -> 1d12

This strikes me as the right answer.

Xeviat · Jul 17, 2019

For the Rogue, taking away Dex damage would only reduce their damage by a small amount. It also means you wouldn't get many melee Dex characters, which might be what you're wanting.

I miss the 3E weapon system with it's crit ranges and multipliers. The rapier got to deal less damage than the longsword, but had a reason to be.

I feel weird about the longsword not being 1d8, or the Greatsword not being 2d6. Sacred cows and what not.