D&D 5E "The Future of D&D is International" (Inverse article)

MoonSong · Jul 20, 2019

LuisCarlos17f said:
There are millions of Spanish-speakers, but we aren't enough rich to buy all. You can see in many free-to-play online videogames there are translations to different languages but not for Spanish.

I have another theory, Spanish translations require more work, some other languages don't. For other languages you can easily take the plain text in English and just straight translate it without paying too much attention to context. So the result is either a trainwreck that mixes/ignores gender/closeness/person or is more expensive. Many times this is done in Spain for videogames by people who just don't care and make stuff up or that abuse from localism and low register that just doesn't work in other countries. This leads to games that only work in Spain -if ever- so many developers just don't bother.

For D&D to get a hold in many Spanish Speaking countries, it would need two translations, one in Spain's Spanish and the other in a more neutral dialect. (Or for it to be done in Argentina)

Matthia05718273 said:
So... there is a lot wrong with this post.

First, the argument that translating a book from English to Spanish won't make a profit because Spanish-speakers are too poor is nonsensical. Yes much of latin america is below the poverty line, but translating a book from English to Spanish is also not that expensive. There are certainly enough Spanish speakers who can afford to buy a PHB and DMG. The profit problem has way more to do with whether D&D is interesting enough for Spanish-speakers to actually buy one.

I think that box sets would work best. Have stuff that fits next to other tabletop games in stores. Books would get marginalized to the same channels that the English translations are already in.

The Chinese censorship question has always been overstated. China has been perfectly fine with the supernatural if you look at their films and video games, many of which are quite popular. D&D may still have trouble there simply for it's old Satanic devils/demons reputation, but even that is unlikely to stop a Chinese release of the PHB which barely mentions those elements.

As far as I remember Ghostbusters had to be dubbed as something like "monster hunters" or something. D&D would have to pass through a lot of cultural translation. (What to do of the Cleric and the Deities under China?) Not too long ago we knew of China burning the books for an RPG kickstarter?

Zardnaar said:
Something like Storm Kings Thunder could be banned in Russia and may not be very popular in Eastern Europe and parts of South America.

I find this interesting, in what way could it be taken as offensive to Slavic and Russian sensibilities?

Zardnaar · Jul 20, 2019

MoonSong said:
I have another theory, Spanish translations require more work, some other languages don't. For other languages you can easily take the plain text in English and just straight translate it without paying too much attention to context. So the result is either a trainwreck that mixes/ignores gender/closeness/person or is more expensive. Many times this is done in Spain for videogames by people who just don't care and make stuff up or that abuse from localism and low register that just doesn't work in other countries. This leads to games that only work in Spain -if ever- so many developers just don't bother.

For D&D to get a hold in many Spanish Speaking countries, it would need two translations, one in Spain's Spanish and the other in a more neutral dialect. (Or for it to be done in Argentina)

I think that box sets would work best. Have stuff that fits next to other tabletop games in stores. Books would get marginalized to the same channels that the English translations are already in.

As far as I remember Ghostbusters had to be dubbed as something like "monster hunters" or something. D&D would have to pass through a lot of cultural translation. (What to do of the Cleric and the Deities under China?) Not too long ago we knew of China burning the books for an RPG kickstarter?

I find this interesting, in what way could it be taken as offensive to Slavic and Russian sensibilities?

It has a gay character and gay propaganda is illegal in Russia. What counts as gay propaganda is entirely arbitrary so idk if it would be banned or whatever.

Some parts of South America are also really rough outside of urban centers so while not illegal might have limited appeal. Varys by country and areas in the individual country.

I play with some online. Very different cultural values and worldview would be the polite way of describing it.

Remember a few years ago transmedia was a big buzzword. We're gonna have a D&D game and a movie etc etc etc and we're still waiting on the movie and a good game.

They've been selling D&D internationally since at least the 80's. The statement at the start is just a puff piece, the translation is "We want to sell more D&D to the international market".

Which is fine but I doubt it will catch on that well. Sure some people will play but I don't think it's going to be a massive amount.

LuisCarlos17f · Jul 20, 2019

Spanish isn't harder than other Latin languages, but with the subjunctive verbs. I dare to say it because I have tried to learn someones with the web Duolingo. German has a harder grammar, and Russia is worse because also its alphabet is different.

About Chinese censorship I suggest to read the articles "Chinese Regime Tightens Censorship on Entertainment and Literature, Targets Spiritual Content", "Chinese War Movie Canceled Days Before Release, Netizens Suspect Government Censorship" and "Beijing Places Sweeping Ban on Shows, Movies Depicting Ancient China" by The Epoch Times. Other example is if we search about World of Warcraft suffering censorship in China because showing "gore" isn't allowed.

gyor · Jul 20, 2019

Mercurius said:
This article is about a month old, so pardon me if it has already been discussed. It brings up a point that I haven't really considered all that much, that "the future of D&D is international." Chris Perkins said they're looking at South America and Asia, with Spanish, Portuguese, and Chinese languages a focus. Considering that there are almost 900 million native Mandarin speakers (and over a billion speakers overall), 350 million native Spanish speakers (about the same as native English), and 200 million native Portuguese speakers, that's a lot of room for growth.

Another thing I found interesting in the article: "Turns out there's millions of people who really like books, adds Stewart. "They like the tactile feel and the art and craft of it. We don't do PDFs because it's a bad experience. That's why we're not there."

I mean, I suspected this was a factor in D&D's popularity, that people crave something less digital, something more tacticle and--I would add--imaginative, versus the simulative environments of video games. D&D is a far more human experience than video games are, both in terms of social interaction, but also in terms of physical embodiment and imaginative experience.

Anyhow, it is a very positive outlook that holds numerous avenues for discussion. One thought that came to mind is that if D&D does continue to grow, and if Wizards is successful in at least carving out strong markets in Asia and South America, there likely won't be a whiff of anything close to a "6E" anytime soon - not for years, at least, and maybe never, at least nothing more than minor revisions. The game is successful as is, and still growing - wildly more popular than anyone hoped or expected. Whereas five years ago the hope was probably a return to 3E's heyday, now they are probably entertaining dreams of a global player base of even a hundred million or more.

I know no one is expecting a 6E anytime soon, certainly not in this upward trajectory; but the focus on growth and international markets makes that all the more certain. It would be foolish to change the game's rules as millions of new players learn it every year. That said, let's say the player base continues to grow and blossoms to over 50 million over the next few years. Imagine the sales possibilities of a new set of core rulebooks. I imagine that they're already planning to come out with a new set in 2024 for the 50th anniversary that would involve new art, minor tweaks, rules cleanups, and maybe a few new bits and baubles - but nothing more than a "5.1." But in that international environment, the Player's Handbook could be a global best-seller.

A few years ago one thought that was going around was that Wizards of the Coast was leveraging D&D to be the stepping off of a media franchise; that it would eventually be the symbolic heart of a much larger media franchise, but the focus--the big money--would be on video games, movies, TV shows. What is heartening about the article is that it implies that this is no longer case, that the heart and money-maker remain the same: the pen and paper game itself.

This increasing popularity is also why whatever movie or TV show they do, they must do very well, as there could be some risk to the game's popularity and reputation if they put out a crappy film.

Anyhow, good times.

This is 100% win for Pirates as their 5e PDF monopoly continues. Foolish, very foolish.

aco175 · Jul 20, 2019

Everyone knows that the biggest problem with translating is getting the rest of the world to turn away from the metric system and come back to the dark side. :devil:

MoonSong · Jul 20, 2019

LuisCarlos17f said:
Spanish isn't harder than other Latin languages, but with the subjunctive verbs. I dare to say it because I have tried to learn someones with the web Duolingo. German has a harder grammar, and Russia is worse because also its alphabet is different.

On the semantics side, Spanish needs more information to convey a message than English does. For example if you have to translate "I'm bad at studying and I could use your help." Which of the six possible constructs -each one with different meaning- should you use? You need a lot of contextual information to decide.

That is more work than many translators bother to do. Some would only take the script and just guess. This is a problem with the translations of some games, like Shantae. (It's atrocious, Shantae talks to friends as if they were strangers, talks to authority figures as if they were close acquaintances, and talks about herself with male adjectives and nouns)

But even with "good" translations, a lot of these are loaded with Iberian localisms, and are pretty inconsistent between installments. Check the Pokemon and Zelda games for example, or MTG/YUGIOH cards.

About Chinese censorship I suggest to read the articles "Chinese Regime Tightens Censorship on Entertainment and Literature, Targets Spiritual Content", "Chinese War Movie Canceled Days Before Release, Netizens Suspect Government Censorship" and "Beijing Places Sweeping Ban on Shows, Movies Depicting Ancient China" by The Epoch Times. Other example is if we search about World of Warcraft suffering censorship in China because showing "gore" isn't allowed.

Cool, I'll check these

Derren · Jul 20, 2019

Hasn't china recently burned a lot of RPG books that were printed over there?

Chinas censorship is certainly a big obstacle for D&D and many other fantasy RPGs over there, especially their stance on undead. But even apart from that, the chinese mentality is very different from the one in the west.
The question is, will there be a special China version of D&D including having their own adventures or will WotC try to safe money by making a One size fits all version of the game and remove everything that might cause problems in China from all future products?

Urriak · Jul 20, 2019

Derren said:
Hasn't china recently burned a lot of RPG books that were printed over there?

Chinas censorship is certainly a big obstacle for D&D and many other fantasy RPGs over there, especially their stance on undead. But even apart from that, the chinese mentality is very different from the one in the west.
The question is, will there be a special China version of D&D including having their own adventures or will WotC try to safe money by making a One size fits all version of the game and remove everything that might cause problems in China from all future products?

China has burned some RPG books, but it's not some blanket policy but instead mostly dependent on the whims of individual censors (which is it's own sort of problem). China is totally fine dealing with mysticism, fantasy, and violence, the bigger problem they have is foreign mysticism-fantasy-violence. Video games and films made in China deal with these things and censors mostly don't care, it's when the influence originated from outside China that the censors close in.

For that reason, D&D probably won't be accepted in China if it is just a straight translation. However, the chance of it being successful will skyrocket if Wizards partners with a local Chinese company and gives them license to change replace the Chinese-controversial content with more local fantasy content.

I'm not sure why people are debating the European languages, those are not impossibly hard to translate. And countries like Spain, France and Germany have their own history with tabletop RPGs so D&D is not some completely novel concept there.

MoonSong · Jul 21, 2019

Matthia05718273 said:
I'm not sure why people are debating the European languages, those are not impossibly hard to translate. And countries like Spain, France and Germany have their own history with tabletop RPGs so D&D is not some completely novel concept there.

Spanish is kind of a special case. Unlike Italian(76% of native speakers are in Italy), French(60% of n.S. Are in France), Russian (96% of native speakers are from Russia), and German (78% of n.S. Are in Germany) only like 9% of native speakers of Spanish are from Spain. In contrast, a third of the native speakers are from North America and a half of native speakers are from South America, yet Hasbro and other game (and videogame) companies insist on using exclusively translations made in Spain. (And Spain's Spanish is quite particular with a lot of idiosyncrasies compared with the Spanish of everywhere else) This is a factor in the lack of penetration of D&D(and Pathfinder) in Latin America. Only Argentina has a strong enough RPG community.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a Spain's Spanish version of D&D, but there should be at least another Spanish version if WotC really wants to go after the other 91% of the Spanish native speakers. (One done in Argentina or California/Florida)

I'd also like to bring up evidence D: Portuguese D&D. Companies rely primarily in Brazilian Portuguese to do their products, and D&D has good penetration in Brazil (The biggest country with Portuguese native speakers) they even had their own homegrown high profile RPG a few years ago, and there are a lot of companies that could produce their own and support localization of D&D.

Carlsen Chris · Jul 21, 2019

I'm afraid I don't agree. I went to a local game convention last weekend and they were selling rock candy polyhedral dice. The future of D&D is delicious.