D&D 5E High level and trivial encounters

n0nym · Jul 19, 2019

Hi guys,

I've been running ToA lately and my players are level 9, in the 5th floor of the Tomb. We've had some fun with this adventure, but a few things really irked me along the way, one of which is how low level ennemies stop to matter after a while.

I kept rolling for random encounters, getting a few cannibals here, some jungle goblins there, and it always felt more like a chore than a real epic moment. Even now in the Tomb itself some encounters just feel like a way to drain character ressources (mainly spells, because monsters barely hit the PCs anyway).

I'm thinking of ways to make the goblins (and other lowbies) matter at high level for my next campaign and wondered if the following rules would help :

Flanking : ennemies gets +1 to attack rolls against you for each hostile creature that outnumbers you. You're considered "outnumbered" if there are more ennemies within melee range of you than the number of squares you occupy. E.g. : a medium target is outnumbered by 2 or more ennemies while an ogre is only outnumbered by 5 or more. If a medium sized character is surrounded by 8 goblins, they all get +8 to Attack.

(if needed) Cleave through ennemies : same as DMG. Your damage goes through multiple ennemies.

What's your opinion on this ?

Stormonu · Jul 19, 2019

Low level encounters draining resources are exactly what they're used for. They aren't meant to be epic battles but to become stumbling blocks the party is better suited to avoid or find ways around that don't expend resources that are needed for the bigger fights. They aren't big fights in themselves; they make the other encounters more difficult to manage due to dwindling resources.

S'mon · Jul 19, 2019

Ever since I went to 1 week long rests, this sort of 4e problem vanished. The players definitely do care about resource draining encounters when it may mean eg the Barbarians not having a Rage left when they face the BBEG.

Really 5e is built around an expectation of 6-8 encounters per Long Rest, with the majority of
those only resource drains. Officially only a Deadly encounter has a significant risk of PC death.

5ekyu · Jul 19, 2019

I think the OP hits a very informative point - seeing "matters" only in terms of threat.

I frequently make these "environmental" random encounters matter by toeing them into stuff that matters - giving them ties to the PCs (backstory, race, background or class) or ties to the setting.

Whst if your random goblin encounter is not a small band of goblins attacking/stalking you, but instead attacking or besieging or carting back prisoners? What if those pridoners include elves or halflings like the PCs.

What if they have info thats important? What if instead of stalking or attacking thry are seeking help? What if this encounter spotlights divisions in the local area that can be exploited or just be interesting?

What if their loot includes old dwarven coins that are out of place but meaningful to one of the PCs? What if it's an elven coin with an image engraved that is meaningful to another?

Obvioudly, some of these examples wont specifically carry thru to that setting but those that dont likely have analogs that do?

Its in my experience when "random" encountered are approached from tacticalzonly blinders that one starts to see these as "not mstter" or " meaningless" and in my experience that fosters an environment where "engaging" and "combat" are treated as synonyms.

Non-life-or-death encounters are perfect places for "meaningful" encounters that " matter" a lot and tie in with the PCs.

Oofta · Jul 19, 2019

Like [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION], I use the alternate long rest rule. If you can get a long rest after every other fight, almost every fight can become trivial depending on your group.

But I also think tactics can make a huge difference. Have the goblins set up traps and ambushes. They never show up in fireball formation, they pop out of the woods fire some arrows and disappear into the jungle and show up again from somewhere else. Chase them? They've set up trip lines and snares.

Or just adjust the encounters. The random table calls for 5 goblins? Well, the goblins have heard of the group and they send 20. In waves. Add in some environmental hazards. Goblins for example are small and light. Maybe they can cross the quicksand while that half orc breaks through and sinks.

I like to think of the encounters from the monster's perspective. I'm picking on goblins a bit here, but they are cowardly and know that there are a lot of creatures out there that can take them out easily. So they only attack when they believe they have a clear advantage.

But one last thing. I generally only play out encounters that advance the game or reinforce the theme. If the fights really are trivial (and sometimes that's appropriate) I'll just narrate the fact that there were some minor skirmishes that the group easily won along the way. So if the random encounters aren't adding to the game, don't use them or modify them so that they do add to the game.

CubicsRube · Jul 19, 2019

As above making long rests more rare can help detrivialise these encounters.

There's a rule from AiME which I think really highlights something that ahould be enforced more - not everywhere is safe for a long rest.

I would look at the maps and designate a few areas as "sanctuaries" which are safe for characters to long rest at. Make these as sparse as you need and it'll put a sense of pressure on, as they won't know when they can next take a rest.

jasper · Jul 19, 2019

Speed bump encounters take few resources and a few minutes. But for every minute pass, that allows the Tomb to move real resources. Moves the time closer to the dead line.
EVIL DM. IT is now 00:03 hours. You just missed the deadline by 3 minutes. OOPS.

iserith · Jul 19, 2019

You could just have the NPCs or monsters do something other than mindlessly attack the PCs until slain. Perhaps they rush the PCs, try to steal something valuable, then run away. Maybe they trail the PCs at a safe distance, not making their intent known, and then when the PCs encounter something tougher, they jump into the fight to try to take out a single PC. You could also have it be a social interaction challenge rather than a combat - the NPCs have information or an item that is useful to the PCs, but have to be convinced to give it up.

But ultimately, if the encounter is dinging the PCs for a few hit points here and a few spell slots there, over the course of an adventuring day this actually starts to add up, constraining the players' choices in later, more challenging situations. That's what they're supposed to do. Not every encounter needs to have a high difficulty.

CubicsRube · Jul 19, 2019

Thinking back on the dungeon in toa, i belive most of the levels are fairly self contained, so another option as me tioned above might be waves. If you cause a commotion by getting into a fight, then nearby monsters should respond, and some of those might want to rush in.

If you want to do this you can announce during the fight that the pcs hear sounds coming closer from nearby tunnels and even put a visual reminder if you want (like poker chips removing one each round) until the others arrive.

3 trivial encounter is very different to 3 wabes of trovial encounters happening at rounds 1, 3 and 4

Stalker0 · Jul 19, 2019

The key is numbers. 20 creatures with bows are likely to be a threat, even crappy ones, do to the ability to focus fire.

You can use mob rules to cut down the rolling if you prefer.