D&D 5E Counterspell what do people think?

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

Nebulous said:
i hate the spell. I hate using it on the PCs and cancelling their action, slot and plan without even a roll, and I hate it being used against me as a DM. If there was an opposed Arcana check so that it was a contest of willpower, that would help. I'll probably remove it from my next campaign and relegate to a rare magic item with limited charges or something.

There is a roll if they are countering a spell that his higher than 3rd... but I can see how opposed checks might feel more dynamic - my idea was to have d4+spell level+int? damage of a type perhaps related to the spell countered if you succeed and snap back damage if you fail, while allowing even countering lower level spells be somewhat more questionable.

I definitely understand not wanting to say no to their action,slot and plan regardless. Hated spell interference iin 1e as a DM because spell slots were such a resource at low levels.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

Krachek said:
If you play it by the rules it work fine and is challenging to use.
your reaction is made blindly triggered by a casting.
You don’t know the spell nor the level. Total wild guess.
of course if your are counterspelled you can easily guess the spell, by what level he use?
the is not so easy to manage you feel like a poker game.

It is definitely a guess but you know in combat the guess is fairly solid the enemy spell is not something you want to happen

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

Oofta said:
Depending on the group this can be one of the most annoying aspects of the game. We had a group that had 3 PCs that could counterspell ... so people would counter the spell with that counter being countered with the counter of the counter being countered ... ad nauseum.

The only way an enemy spellcaster could get anything off was to have a way to cast a spell without being seen. Yes it drained resources, but at higher levels enemy spellcasters were totally nerfed.

Idea of Multi-cast counterspell .... hmmm when I ask for strength check and multiple people are lifting I have in the past asked for the highest persons strength then gave a bonus for each person whose strength was within 5 points of that. AND make one check what if there was a rule where multiple casters could participate as a group or they interfered with one another?

Ralif Redhammer · Jul 22, 2019

It’s a little annoying, as both a player and a DM. But when you start getting into counterspelling the counterspell, then it starts getting really annoying. Do that too much to me as a DM, and spellcasting enemies will start showing up in groups and/or with greater invisibility.

pogre · Jul 22, 2019

Harkening back to the mass combat (Chainmail) origins reminds me of something that drives me crazy in 5e: Counterspell has a sixty foot range, which makes it much less effective in mass combat.

So, you can see that massive damage, area of effect spell coming from 100+ feet away, but you cannot counter it!

Oofta · Jul 22, 2019

Garthanos said:
Idea of Multi-cast counterspell .... hmmm when I ask for strength check and multiple people are lifting I have in the past asked for the highest persons strength then gave a bonus for each person whose strength was within 5 points of that. AND make one check what if there was a rule where multiple casters could participate as a group or they interfered with one another?

what would happen in our games was that:
BG1 casts a spell
Bard counters BG1's spell
BG1 counters Bard's counter
Wiz counters BG1's counter of Bard's counter
BG2 counters Wiz's counter of BG1's counter of Bard's counter of BG1's counter
Cleric counters BG2's counter of Wiz's counter of BG1's counter of Bard's counter of BG1's counter

... and it just kind of circle's down the drain in chain counters of counters of counters.

I guess an easier answer would have been that you can't counter a counter, but then the enemy casters would never get a spell off. Or maybe you can counter a counter but not counter a counter of a counter? Wait ... what were we talking about again?

In a way I like the idea of a contest limited to two spellcasters, but it becomes crazy at higher levels with half the party or more having counterspell.

There were times when we (my wife was DM most of the time) were tempted to just house rule that so many counters caused a magical vortex that caused a singularity and sucked all the casters into the void.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

Oofta said:
what would happen in our games was that:
BG1 casts a spell
Bard counters BG1's spell
BG1 counters Bard's counter
Wiz counters BG1's counter of Bard's counter
BG2 counters Wiz's counter of BG1's counter of Bard's counter of BG1's counter
Cleric counters BG2's counter of Wiz's counter of BG1's counter of Bard's counter of BG1's counter

... and it just kind of circle's down the drain in chain counters of counters of counters.

I guess an easier answer would have been that you can't counter a counter, but then the enemy casters would never get a spell off. Or maybe you can counter a counter but not counter a counter of a counter? Wait ... what were we talking about again?

In a way I like the idea of a contest limited to two spellcasters, but it becomes crazy at higher levels with half the party or more having counterspell.

There were times when we (my wife was DM most of the time) were tempted to just house rule that so many counters caused a magical vortex that caused a singularity and sucked all the casters into the void.

I was suggesting basic if the one player wants to counter an enemy spell he asks his allies if they want in? yes they all add no? they do not get to

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

pogre said:
Harkening back to the mass combat (Chainmail) origins reminds me of something that drives me crazy in 5e: Counterspell has a sixty foot range, which makes it much less effective in mass combat.

So, you can see that massive damage, area of effect spell coming from 100+ feet away, but you cannot counter it!

Chainmail Ranges in Inches I think each was 10 yards Sorcerer 60"Warlock 48"Magician 36"Seer 24"

Better than Archery IRL

Tony Vargas · Jul 22, 2019

Garthanos said:
https://dmdavid.com/tag/how-new-changes-created-the-4-most-annoying-spells-in-dungeons-dragons/ I kind of feel like its unlikely to come up so often as to really be a problem? But since it doesnt advance the battle towards its conclusion very much is it one people will even use?

It sounds like the main problem isn't the spell, but the kind of complicated simplification of rolling every-off-turn-everything and some on-turn stuff, all into the harried Reaction.

Oofta · Jul 22, 2019

Garthanos said:
I was suggesting basic if the one player wants to counter an enemy spell he asks his allies if they want in? yes they all add no? they do not get to

I could see that - maybe - if you changed it to some kind of contest and giving the people an option to assist for advantage. So in my example (sadly not an exaggeration) the wiz or cleric channeling spell energy to the bard to assist in the battle could actually be kind of cool.

But ... I have issues with that too. Basically what kind of check do you make it? The wiz would want to use arcana, but he's probably the only one. What if the enemy is a sorcerer? Their arcana check probably isn't going to be great. How do you handle spells of different levels?

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, I'm just not sure how to implement it in a way that D&D would handle it. Right now the counter works for everything lower than level 3 and you can cast to the counter at a higher level to guarantee it's dispelled.

I guess it feels like it would almost require a whole new subsystem to do it justice. I like the concept of a spell battle, the implementation is what leaves something to be desired.