D&D 5E Counterspell what do people think?

UnknownDyson · Jul 22, 2019

Garthanos said:
How about my idea... make it a bit more iffy against lower level spells and give whiplash effects even a small amount of damage d4+spell level? of a type related to the spell countered. (if any) or a type opposite.

And conversely when I fail to counter it i might take a small amount of damage of the opposite type maybe?

I actually like that much better as a subclass feature for a sorcerer or wizard than I do for the whole game.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

UnknownDyson said:
I actually like that much better as a subclass feature for a sorcerer or wizard than I do for the whole game.

I was thinking it sort of gave flavor of magic being dangerous not just a level of commitment to the counterspell too...

UnknownDyson · Jul 22, 2019

Garthanos said:
I was thinking it sort of gave flavor of magic being dangerous not just a level of commitment to the counterspell too...

I don't think you should mechanically inhibit an arcane spellcasters ability to deal with magic. Wizards - they learn and prepare spells at great monetary and time costs. Sorcerers - they have a very limited number of spells known. Warlocks - They don't have many spell slots. One thing that these classes have going for them is that they can deal with magic in ways that the divine casters can't. Besides, counterspell already has weaknesses built in. It only works if the caster can see a target within 60 feet of them (unless you are a sorcerer with the distant metamagic), and requires a reaction. The DC for the upcast is 10 + the spell's level going off your spellcasting stat, which means you don't get to apply your proficiency bonus unless you are an abjurer.

I don't think making counterspell unreliable against lower level spells is the way to go. I personally like the d4 whiplash idea, but I don't know that people would embrace it if it wasn't tied to a subclass.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

UnknownDyson said:
I don't think you should mechanically inhibit an arcane spellcasters ability to deal with magic.

Aside from introducing possible but even potentially rarish failure on lower level ones I wasnt thinking of inhibiting just flavoring it up a bit adding pop when it succeeds and opposite small ouch when it doesnt (ie having it potentially fail against a lower slot spell was just more of that pop)

UnknownDyson said:
Wizards - they learn and prepare spells at great monetary and time costs. Sorcerers - they have a very limited number of spells known. Warlocks - They don't have many spell slots. One thing that these classes have going for them is that they can deal with magic in ways that the divine casters can't. Besides, counterspell already has weaknesses built in. It only works if the caster can see a target within 60 feet of them (unless you are a sorcerer with the distant metamagic), and requires a reaction. The DC for the upcast is 10 + the spell's level going off your spellcasting stat, which means you don't get to apply your proficiency bonus unless you are an abjurer.

I don't think making counterspell unreliable against lower level spells is the way to go. I personally like the d4 whiplash idea, but I don't know that people would embrace it if it wasn't tied to a subclass.

It occured to me that modern wizard duel inspiration does draw heavily on Harry Potter.

I am less certain counterspell actually feels like it.
And perhaps that could be one distinction while there is a lot of spell parrying ? spell blocking? in Harry Potter One might picture that as affecting only self or some adjacent character.Though perhaps there could be some cantrip type active spell block? I will say the counterspell as it stands can help allies making it more D&D.

Before Harry Potter there was Doctor Strange which has also made it to the movie screen(not so impressively as the latest perhaps). Doctor Strange also features spell shields personal and team friendly spheres to protect allies or against lots and lots of opponents.

77IM · Jul 22, 2019

My favorite fix for counterspell is: if you successfully counter someone, they get back the spell slot (or daily ability use) they spent on that spell. So you're just delaying their spell, which may be tactically super useful, but is by no means a "must-have" ability.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

77IM said:
My favorite fix for counterspell is: if you successfully counter someone, they get back the spell slot (or daily ability use) they spent on that spell. So you're just delaying their spell, which may be tactically super useful, but is by no means a "must-have" ability.

Trading a spell slot to delay them? and them not losing a spell slot, that is edging passed not even something i would want.

Does it progress the fight might be a measure of worth.

Nebulous · Jul 22, 2019

i hate the spell. I hate using it on the PCs and cancelling their action, slot and plan without even a roll, and I hate it being used against me as a DM. If there was an opposed Arcana check so that it was a contest of willpower, that would help. I'll probably remove it from my next campaign and relegate to a rare magic item with limited charges or something.

Krachek · Jul 22, 2019

If you play it by the rules it work fine and is challenging to use.
your reaction is made blindly triggered by a casting.
You don’t know the spell nor the level. Total wild guess.
of course if your are counterspelled you can easily guess the spell, by what level he use?
the is not so easy to manage you feel like a poker game.

ccs · Jul 22, 2019

I've never had a player (any edition) ever use Counterspell.

Oofta · Jul 22, 2019

Depending on the group this can be one of the most annoying aspects of the game. We had a group that had 3 PCs that could counterspell ... so people would counter the spell with that counter being countered with the counter of the counter being countered ... ad nauseum.

The only way an enemy spellcaster could get anything off was to have a way to cast a spell without being seen. Yes it drained resources, but at higher levels enemy spellcasters were totally nerfed.