Reputation

OnCider

Explorer
I was thinking along the lines of non-XP rewards and thought of implementing a reputation system. A bit similar to that used in CRPGs like Baldur's Gate.

I wondered whether you kind people could help me in hammering out a system.

The PCs will all start with a reputation of 0 and earn points for completing quests or doing heroic deeds etc. They could also lose points and become more "infamous"

Ideas for benefits might include getting discounts from traders, bonuses to diplomacy checks and gather information etc

A reputation check would be required with varying DCs (for a starting PC with a reputation of 0 it would be a DC of near 20 for anyone to have heard of them).

Anyone fancy helping me out with this one?

OnCider
 

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Michael Morris

First Post
I'd start them with a rep of 10 and treat it like any other stat - providing bonuses or penalties when the reputation is known - most frequently to diplomacy or gather information checks using the same chart as the other stats...

8-9 -1
10-11 0
12-13 +1
14-15 +2
etc.

This way you don't have to memorize a new chart.

To add an additional wrinkle, rule that an NPC whose own reputation is negative will view a positive reputation as negative and vice versa, essentially inverting the chart...

6-7 +2
8-9 +1
10-11 0
12-13 -1
etc.

Finally allow reputation to go into negatives, something the other stats can't do.

With that core you still need to work out what changes rep.
 

OnCider

Explorer
Michael Morris said:
I'd start them with a rep of 10 and treat it like any other stat - providing bonuses or penalties when the reputation is known - most frequently to diplomacy or gather information checks using the same chart as the other stats...

8-9 -1
10-11 0
12-13 +1
14-15 +2
etc.

This way you don't have to memorize a new chart.

To add an additional wrinkle, rule that an NPC whose own reputation is negative will view a positive reputation as negative and vice versa, essentially inverting the chart...

6-7 +2
8-9 +1
10-11 0
12-13 -1
etc.

Finally allow reputation to go into negatives, something the other stats can't do.

With that core you still need to work out what changes rep.

I like that, it makes the system more "D20".

I'm not so sure about negative reputation. Maybe I need to change the system to be "fame" than reputation, that way it would work with the alignment system better. i.e. an NPC would make a fame check to have heard of the character's previous exploits and modify their reaction accordingly.

From searching on other boards, apparently the Star Wars system has a mechanic that is similar to this?

OnCider
 

Frostmarrow

First Post
Perhaps you can tie Michael's idea to seperate alignments then. So that you can have LE: 13 for a +1 bonus when dealing with Lawfuls, Neutrals and Evils but a -1 when dealing with Chaotics and Goods. So if you are LE and meet another LE you get a +2 to Diplomacy checks. With CG you get a -2 and with all else a +1.

I.e. A CG ranger with a fame score of 18 gets a +8 bonus when dealing with common elves but just a +4 with the church of Heironeous (who still respect the character a great deal on account of his good deeds.)
 

Frostmarrow

First Post
On second thoughts that suggestion is a bit too complicated. I like your own idea better;

* Have a Fame score as the seventh stat.
* Use the stat to see if people recognise you.
* People who do recognise you know your alignment.

Simple yet elegant.
 

OnCider

Explorer
Maybe your initial fame score would be 10 + your charisma modifier...

...or maybe not - you already get Charisma modifiers to things like Bluff and Diplomacy.

An successful NPC recognition check would maybe give you a +2 (or -2) fame bonus (or penalty) to:

Bluff
Diplomacy
Disguise (negatively?)
Gather Information
Intimidate
Perform
 

Frostmarrow

First Post
OnCider said:
Maybe your initial fame score would be 10 + your charisma modifier...

...or maybe not - you already get Charisma modifiers to things like Bluff and Diplomacy.

An successful NPC recognition check would maybe give you a +2 (or -2) fame bonus (or penalty) to:

Bluff
Diplomacy
Disguise (negatively?)
Gather Information
Intimidate
Perform

First of all - this thread will soon be moved to the House Rules Forum. Now that this has been said I can get on with business.

Say that your fame score starts out as 1 or something else ridiculously low (for a -5 adjustment). Any time the DM sees fit the Fame score jumps up a notch. It's recommended to keep the Fame score about as high as the character level but that depends on the profile of the character. An outspoken bard is naturally going to have a greater Fame score than for example a seclusive druid.

The player can use his Fame to get recognised but he doesn't have to, so the stat is about giving power to the players rather than taking power away. I mean how fun is it to infiltrate a city of orcs only to realise that the first orc guard has been collecting a scrap book on your exploits? When travelling incognito it's a good idea to wear a hood, though. :)

The DC for being recognised (and respected) depends, but is 15 default. The DM is free to set the DC as well as giving out +2 boni or penalties as usual. If the NPC recognises the character the NPC is aware of the character's alignment and can act accordingly. This means that even a character with a Fame score of 1 will be recognised once in a blue moon - "it's a small world after all".

Example: Ragnar the Ranger infiltrates a city of orcs in order to rescue a nymph held prisoner in a tower near the waterfront. The orcs are not hostile to any and all humans but only towards the enemies of the orc state. Ragnar is free to roam the streets as long as he keeps out of situations where he would have to introduce himself (where he would need to rely on his under developed bluff skill). When Ragnar reaches the nymph in the tower she refuses to follow him because she suspects the freeing attempt is just a ruse staged by the orcs. Ragnar decides to reveal himself as a CG champion of the forest. He rolls a Fame check against DC 15 for the nymph to recognise him. If successful the nymph will have heard of Ragnar the Ranger and know that he, at least by reputation, is CG.

And surely that is worth a +2 circumstance bonus to social checks. :)

Ps. For completeness I'd like to add that Arvid the Assassin could just as easily bluff the nymph into believing the he in fact is Ragnar the Ranger... The Fame rules should in no way replace the Bluff, Intimidate or Diplomacy. Ds.
 
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Chacal

First Post
IMO, reputation is an important part of the roleplay experience, because it helps the PCs to know how and where they fit in the campaignworld. However, there are two points I don't like with the "reputation is a stat" system.


- I think reputation is relative to different organizations and I would track it for each relevant group encountered (That's hard to do for an existing character, but quite easy as an incremental process) and hand out a "contacts sheet" to the players where they could put their contacts and relation with groups if they want (it's an incentive that might work, because some players love to fill character sheets ;) )

- assigning numbers known to the player might detract from the feeling and reduct it to just another stat. I'd prefer to keep the numbers hidden, and give a "text" scale to the players. Plus I would keep secret their reputation towards groups they might not know yet :)

When considering NPCs that are in multiple groups, you can say the bonus/penalties stacks.

Chacal
 
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Atilary

Explorer
I actually made a reputation system up modeling it after ability scores. I follows below. It has yet to be play tested, but I think at least for my group it would work quite well. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions on it, let me know.

All player characters, over the course of their lives, will gain a reputation, be it for good or ill. These rules, while not completely necessary, may be used to adjudicate the effects of such a reputation on how the character reacts with NPCs.
All characters have seven attributes, the first six being Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, as outlined in Chapter 1 of the PHB. The seventh ability is Fame or Infamy, depending on what type of reputation a character is building for themselves. A character’s Fame/Infamy score begins at 3 and is increased like other stats at character creation. When a player rolls the other six stats for his character, he also gets to roll 2d6 dice to determine his starting Fame/Infamy. Only the highest die’s score is added to his ability, so that a player that rolls a 2 and 5 adds the 5 to the base 3 to get a starting score of 8. The Fame/Infamy ability is a way to determine how well known a particular character is, and how they can use their reputations to influence interaction with others.
Characters may not spend ability increases, such as those gained at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels. They may not magically increase their Fame/Infamy either. The only way to increase a reputation is to gain levels and make oneself familiar to others. Characters often times may do other things as well to gain reputation, and the warrior who slew the goblin king is surely more well known than the one that missed the battle, unless he had a higher reputation than before the battle.
Because Fame/Infamy is treated like any other ability, it also possesses an ability modifier like any other stat. The modifier works like those for other abilities, but may only be used under certain conditions and is applied as a circumstance bonus on top of any other modifiers. The Fame/Infamy ability score modifier can be applied to Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Perform checks. It can also be applied to checks made to alter a NPCs reaction. The application of this bonus to these rolls is determined by the DM, but should be reserved only for situations when a character’s reputation will influence the outcome. In some situations, particularly when the target of the check is so foreign as to know nothing of the character, the bonuses do not matter. In the case of Bluff checks being made to hide one’s identity, the score might instead be applied the target’s Sense Motive check, representing how well known you are to people. It is hard for a country’s hero to hide his identity when interacting with the people.
The Fame/Infamy ability modifier also affects a character’s leadership rating, as outlined on page 106 of the DMG. A character’s Fame/Infamy ability modifier is used in place of the +2 Leadership score bonus for having great renown, so well known characters might receive more, while unknown characters receive less.
This attribute is intended only for player character and important NPCs, and should not be used when dealing with common and low level individuals. If needed for such an NPC that possesses only NPC classes, a score of 6 or 8 works fine. For characters that possess PC classes, a score of 8 or 10 does well.

Miscellaneous Modifiers To Fame Checks
Situation Mod
Characters of the same class +1
Characters know someone in common +1
Characters in the same organization +2
Characters have no common language -4
Characters from different planes* -15
Characters represent opposing forces +1
NPC a Bard +2
*Fame/Infamy may not be appropriate for the circumstance.

The formula for determining Fame/Infamy is: 3 (base) + 1d6 (upon character creation) + level modifier + class modifier + DM awards

Class Modifiers For Fame Scores
Class Mod Class Mod
Bard +2 Paladin +2
Druid -2 Ranger -2
Noble +2 Witch -2
Classes not listed receive no modifiers for class.
These modifiers only apply if the listed class is a character’s highest class.
These modifiers should be adjusted accordingly to a classes’ prevalence in a given area.
Fame modifiers from class do not stack. The maximum bonus or penalty is 2. If a character has equal levels in a class that gives a –2 and a class that gives a +2, they have a 0 modifier. Prestige classes do not affect Fame/Infamy scores.

Character Level Modifiers
Level Modifier Level Modifier
1-2 +0 12-15 +3
3-4 +1 16-19 +4
5-6 +2 20+ +5

In some special circumstances Dungeon Masters should award Fame/Infamy points for their actions, but only when their actions are monumental and well known. The rule for determining whether or not an event is suited for PCs to receive Fame/Infamy points is simple; if an event would be front page news and the hero would receive recognition and great honor in the real world, then it likely deserves a +1 Fame/Infamy point award. If an event would be national or world news and the hero would be honored across vastly different cultures, then a +2 or +3 might be appropriate. For a general rule, such bonuses should be awarded about every 3 levels, but should not be given out lightly.
It can be hard to determine at times whether a character has a Fame score or an Infamy score. As a general rule evil aligned characters possess Infamy and good aligned characters posses Fame. Neutral characters are at the player and DM’s discretion. However, some characters posses scores that do not go with their alignments, such as the malevolent wizard who has saved the local population in the past, but whose true character is not known. It is possible for such a character to be cruel, heartless, and quite evil, but to all outside appearances be a great and loving man. Under such circumstances, the evil wizard would possess a Fame score.
 

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