Do Ray Spells suffer -4 "Firing into Melee" penalty?

From the 3.5 SRD
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Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at
a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a -4 penalty
on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies
of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise
immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being
attacked.)

If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big
target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you
can avoid the -4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged
in melee with a friendly character.

Precise Shot: If you have the Precise Shot feat you don't take this penalty.
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Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you're aiming at.
If a ray spell has a duration, it's the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.
If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.

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I've never seen enforced, nor as a GM have I enforced, a -4 penalty to ray spells which are fired at creatures in melee combat. However I believe that the rules here are somewhat ambiguous. I believe the key issue hinges on whether ray spells are consider ranged "weapons" or whether ranged touch attacks do not suffer from the -4 penalty. They operate, in regards to cover and concealment, in a manner similar to most ranged weapons. Despite this, in my mind it is not a convincing argument that they should suffer a penalty. I'm interested in hearing what other GMs think.

What say you?

I do enforce the -4 for shooting into melee.


Mike

I'm hoping for a more indepth response that "yes or no". Otherwise I would have posted a poll .

Honestly though, I'm hoping that I can hear some rational as to why one or the other would be appropriate. Just to add one more thing, touch attacks of any sort are distinct from ranged attacks. They are treated the same as them in some ways and different from them in others (see below). I think we need to identify if this is a case where they should be treated the same or not.

From the 3.5 SRD
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Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
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From the 3.0 Main FAQ:

3.0 Main FAQ said:

If I cast a ray spell (ranged touch attack) at a foe who is engaged in melee with an ally of mine, do I take the standard –4 penalty for firing a ranged weapon into melee?
Yes, and there may be an additional attack penalty if the target has cover from your ally. If your ally provides cover to your target, the ray could strike your ally (see Striking the Cover Instead of a Missed Target on page 133 of the Player’s Handbook).

Click to expand...

Andargor

The -4 penalty for shooting into melee comes from avoiding trying to hit your friend in melee with the monster. If you're shooting a ray of frost into the melee it's the same difference as if you were shooting a crossbow - you're trying not to hit your friend.

As everyone else said, it certainly does apply. Both by the rules and by common sense.

-The Souljourner

I apply the penalty only if the ray could affect the ally. Ray of frost, yes. Disrupt undead, no.

Dingleberry said:

I apply the penalty only if the ray could affect the ally. Ray of frost, yes. Disrupt undead, no.

Click to expand...

But you can still miss the undead target by hitting your ally with the ray attack.

Yeah, the -4 isn't really because you're trying not to hit your allies, it's because when you're in melee, you're not really just standing there in your mini's position, waiting for your turn to attack. You're dodging, circling your enemy... which makes people firing at you more likely to miss, because you're constantly dodging and feinting and switching positions with this other guy right next to you.

-The Souljourner

Yes, I enforce the -4 penalty under the theory that people are dancing around in melee and you have to aim carefully not to frag your friends.

There was a discussion of this recently in Rules; I'll see if I can find the link.
-edit (link found) -
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82491

Also, the rules for this changed between 3.0E and 3.5E as part of the general changes to Cover. So be wary of which edition people are talking about.