Let's ban Teleport!

Teleport (and similar magic) can make certain campaign styles highly difficult, since it allows to retreat into far away towns and cities in an eyeblink to replenish resources, get whatever equipment might be needed, or to heal, and it can completely override the need to travel. Teleport is an extremely potent spell for sure.

How would a campaign similar to the Lord of the Rings trilogy have been with D&D style Teleport. *Zzzip* *splosh* The End. Pretty damn fast.

Therefore, it might be reasonable to ban all teleportation spells and items. However, it's not like banning these spells is the only option, there are several ways to limit and restrict the use ot teleportation magic, but sometimes, it simply doesn't feel right, and magic which - by default - requires to use countermeasures to restrict its use, must be wrong in some way, at least.

One result of this would be, that certain other spells, which normally are not used often, because Teleport just can do all at once and usually better, would show up more. Magic, that can create items (Major Creation), or makes travelling easier, would suddenly be highly useful then, if you cannot simply use Teleport to cover all your needs. Also the infamous BST routine (Buff-Scry-Teleport) would not happen anymore.

So, what do you think should be covered in that case?

Ban: Teleport
Ban: Greater Teleport
Ban: Teleport Object
Ban: Teleportation Circle

Of course, every item with similar abilities like the helm of teleportation would be banned as well.

Replace: Travel Domain 5th level spell with Overland Flight
Replace: Travel Domain 7th level spell with Passwall or Shadow Walk (?)

Creatures, which have these spells as a spell-like ability, keep them!
Only the spells and similar magics would be gone.

Gate should also be considered, but I feel it's ok, given the high level, and that you would need two 9th level spells to actually move to a different location on the same plane. Also Gate does have a few inherent disadvantages.

Anything else to consider?


Additions (taken from the discussion below):

Ban: Transport via Plants
Consider: Wind Walk
Consider: Tree Stride
Consider: Shadow Walk
Consider: Plane Shift (probably shift up to 7th at least)
Consider: Gate (see above)

Some alternative Options:

Maybe just shift up Teleport to 7th (and Greater Teleport to 9th).
Maybe reduce Teleport's range to 10 miles/level or even 1 mile/level.
Maybe add a sizeable cost to Teleport (similar to Raise Dead/Resurrect).
Maybe make Teleport self only (would fit well with the standard spell-like ability).
Maybe make Wind Walk an arcane spell instead of a divine one.


Important note: I am not looking to house rule these spells away completely, or to restrict every form of fast-movement (only instant-movement and highly similar abilities), furthermore I am not looking to deprive my players of any of their abilities, since I cannot handle them (I can, believe me ), I am mostly looking for flavor-changes, which would only apply to individual campaigns and - of course - be known even before character creation has started! Also, despite using the LotR as an example, I am not looking for a reproduction of the Tolkien flavor.

I believe, that these spells (mostly Teleport in all its variations) have dramatic effects on a campaign and a setting. With magic like that available, a whole new level of logistics is available, which has to be considered all the time. Sometimes it just feels more like "traditional fantasy", if such options are not available at all.

I am certainly aware, that teleportation magic can add a lot to a high level campaign, which takes these options into consideration, but it just has such a dominating effect, that it always has to be taken into consideration, if things shouldn't be run in a completely arbitrary fashion.

Bye
Thanee

I like Teleport. Once the characters get to a high enough level to use it regularly, the players have gotten to the point in the campaign where they're bored sick of playing out the tedious travel from adventure to home city and back again.

In this case I'm willing to sacrifice versimlitude (the world would be pretty funky if you think through all the ramifications of teleport circles) for ease of play.

Actually, I think you can keep down the major abuses with some minor tweaks.

First is a convention I've used for some time - a bit of Gorgon's blood mixed in the mortar will render a building impervious to teleport or other translocational spells. So no teleporting over the castle walls, and certainly not into the king's bedchamber.

Another good one would be to say that you CANNOT teleport to a place you have not personally seen. No taking the chance and doing it blind, and scrying devices don't count. You need to have seen a place with your own two eyes before you can teleport. That would nicely take care of the remote wilderness problem - you can teleport back home easily enough, but getting there you have to do the old fashioned way. It would also make the group wanting to 'buy a teleport' off a wizard much less likely, since in addition to finding a wizard who is willing and capable of casting teleport he has to have been to wherever they want to go. And it completely kills the Buff-Scry-Teleport problem, unless the target is somewhere the attacker has personally been before.

maddman75 said:

Actually, I think you can keep down the major abuses with some minor tweaks.

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I like the way Ultima works where you need to cast a spell on a stone (or some such) to attune it to a location before you can teleport there. Maybe a non-magical item can attune itself if it resides in one spot for several months or years.

Possible adventures:

-The party sends the rogue to steel an object belonging to the BBEG before the party can arrive en masse.

-A lazy wizard hires the party to travel to the mid-levels of the dungeon to attune a stone for him. How far does the party push their luck?

-The BBEG swaps out the party wizard's stones for a set that all go to his dungeon.

-Stealing a BBEG's lieutentant's stones may be the only way to find the BBEG's hidden lair.

-The stones might fade after a while, gradual gaining an increasing miss chance.

-Maybe elves found a way to attune plants to the spot that they germinated. The town's lonely old oak may be the only way to a long lost hidden glade.


Also, you could have teleport work like transporters in Star Trek where you gradually fade in. This would consume the entire suprise round slightly evening up the odds. Or, the transport time could be based on the distance traveled (1 round per mile); increasing the prep time the BBEG gets plus wearing down the pre-teleport buffs.


Aaron (thinks scry is a bigger problem)

Thanee said:

How would a campaign similar to the Lord of the Rings trilogy have been with D&D style Teleport. *Zzzip* *splosh* The End. Pretty damn fast.

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Except that you have to been there before or your chance to end up embedded in rock goes way up. Embedded in rock, Sauron can just chisel the ring out of the wall and take it from your skeletal hands. I doubt he'd say thank you.

One result of this would be, that certain other spells, which normally are not used often, because Teleport just can do all at once and usually better, would show up more. Magic, that can create items (Major Creation), or makes travelling easier, would suddenly be highly useful then, if you cannot simply use Teleport to cover all your needs.

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And thus Wizards become ascendant as more useful than Sorcerers because they can rely on a bunch of spells to get things done whereas a sorcerer must rely on multipurpose single spells to be as effective. Without teleport, the sorcerer will not be very cosmopolitan.

Also the infamous BST routine (Buff-Scry-Teleport) would not happen anymore.

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BST is a non-starter. Read Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum. Any BBEG worth his salt is going to have a magic item that can activate 1/day that causes 10 30-ft cubes of area to become unscryable. No one is going to Teleport into an unscryable location. a 1/day item that last 24 hours at 5th level is cheap. As a continous object, you can even get a discount because it lasts longer than a day. Cost: 5x10x2,000x.5 = 50,000 gp. As a spell charged item: 5x10x2000/5 = 20,000 gp.

Anything else to consider?

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You should also look at Wind Walk.

Personally, I like when the game gets to the point where the party can jump around at will. It broadens the scope of the game. It also eliminates the drive home from the dungeon/adventure site. They travel the hard way to get there and then poof get home. I also find that teleporting leads to the creation of a permanent home base more frequently than not having teleport. Low level parties leave home and wander and wander some more and never get back to their home town. (Hey should we walk back to nowheresville? or investigate those rumors we heard about the next town over?) That is until they get teleport and realize "hey we can go home and be back here tomorrow" poof. Having a home, instead of being wandering nomads, forces them to spend money on improving the home.

Why not just adjust and scale down the odds to for your game, place familiar now is 1-50, somewhat: 51-69, so-on...

I have substantially changed the teleport spell, so that at 5th level, it will only work between one teleport "pad" to another pad. If these pads are permanent, then travel between them can be easily made by anyone of high enough levels. This is done between most major cities, and yes, if you have enough coin you can usually travel this way.

However, if a party needs to teleport out of a dungeon, into a near-by city, the wizard will need to create a teleport pad, which is a minimum of one hour casting to create the temporary pad.

Also, many high level wizards will have pads in their lairs, but they are protected, so one cannot simply use someone else's portal without either a key or password.

I have found these simple adjustments will reduce many of the problems you face, or, it has in my campaign. Yet, give the PCs lots of choice, because it is quick, easy and painless for most (but not all) of their transit issues.

Giant eagles (and similar flying, intelligent mounts) can make certain campaign styles highly difficult, since it allows to retreat into far away towns and cities in a very short time to replenish resources, get whatever equipment might be needen, or to heal, and it can completely override the need to travel. Giant eagles are extremely potent mounts for sure.

How would a campaign similar to the Lord of the Rings trilogy have been with giant eagles. *flap, flap, flap* *splosh* The End. Pretty damn fast.

Therefore, it might be reasonable to ban all flying mounts and items. However, it's not like banning these creatures is the only option, there are several ways to limit and restrict the use ot overland flight, but sometimes, it simply doesn't feel right, and animals which - by default - requires to use countermeasures to restrict their use, must be wrong in some way, at least.


I could go on, but that's probably enough...

G "And by the way, why hasn't Frodo attached the ring to a hamster, which would have been the Ringbearer instead of him, and be just the Hamsterbearer himself, free from all the angst of insidious temptation and metaphysical burden?" Z

Well, clearly I don't think it needs to be banned, but if it works for you, then go ahead.

You'll want to add Wind Walk (very fast travel), Shadow Walk, Tree Stride (it's a teleport spell), Gate (two Gates=perfect teleport) and be cautious of many summon spells that can bring creatures with the ability to summon gates or planeshift characters at will.

Make sure to limit the wish and miracle spells, as well.

Yep, I agree Thanee, I loathe the Teleport spells and Wind Walk with a passion. While there might be cases where they aren't used abusively, I have yet to see them during play. Besides, I enjoy running lower-magic games, and the whole Teleport suite of spells just rubs me the wrong way. Its just too easy, too fast, and too reliable. Besides, the journey to the destination is more than 1/2 the fun- I don't know how many times I've run/played in games where the PCs have gotten into several smaller adventures on the way to a destination that really added a lot of depth and enjoyment to the game.