How to do a "low" economy game?

reddist · Aug 24, 2004

Hey all.

(if this thread has already been talked to death, feel free to point me to it)

We're starting a new campaign this weekend, and one of the things still bothering me is the vast disparity between the wealth of PC adventureres and everybody else in the world. We've all heard about how much gold 1000 gps really is, how much it really weighs, how much its really worth, etc. etc.

The first thought I had was to simply switch out all the places it says "gold" with "silver" as far as charcater creation and standard prices for common equipment goes. Gold becomes much more rare, and while the income for PC adventurers is still greater than your average bar maid, it isn't quite so exponential. Gold is still the standard, but you just don't see too much of it.

How have other people dealt with this? I am trying to create an economy where the PCs still have to worry from time to time whether or not they can afford a night at the inn.

Thanks oodles,

Reddist

Pyrex · Aug 24, 2004

You don't need to necessarily demote the GP to the SP, just decrease the amount of coin you hand out as treasure.

Also, set lower wealth caps on the towns. For example, you could state that in the PC's home town none of the merchants has anything for sale that costs more than 2gp. As a consequence of that, no one in town would be able to buy anything from the pc's that was worth more than ~5gp, and even if they hit up every merchant in town trying to sell stuff they'd have a hard time raising more than 20gp.

(Psi)SeveredHead · Aug 24, 2004

Pyrex said:
You don't need to necessarily demote the GP to the SP, just decrease the amount of coin you hand out as treasure.

Also, set lower wealth caps on the towns. For example, you could state that in the PC's home town none of the merchants has anything for sale that costs more than 2gp. As a consequence of that, no one in town would be able to buy anything from the pc's that was worth more than ~5gp, and even if they hit up every merchant in town trying to sell stuff they'd have a hard time raising more than 20gp.

That's not going to work for balance reasons. Unfortunately, playing a reasonably powerful 3e character, especially a non-spellcaster, requires unreasaonble amounts of treasure.

The only things I can suggest is either to replace magic items with something else (heirloom items, special character powers) or reduce the power of monsters to match the less-powerful player characters.

Sir Elton · Aug 24, 2004

Pyrex said:
You don't need to necessarily demote the GP to the SP, just decrease the amount of coin you hand out as treasure.

Yeah. that works. Gamemaster Law (by ICE, go buy a copy!) handles economics in the game by comparing a fantasy economy with the real world enconomy. Gold is standard in RMFRP/RMSS, but most people do use silver or copper.

You can also use the price charts in Rolemaster. Or complete a price chart yourself by downloading the SRD and changing the values you want to change.

reddist · Aug 24, 2004

One thing I've decided to do is limit the number of magic weapons I dole out. And its never just a '+1 sword,' there will always be a reason behind the item. XP progression will be much slower too, so it will eventually even out... the magic treasure vs character level ratio is still the same, just set at a much slower pace.

I like the heirloom item idea. I've worked something similar into the game but had not necessarily considered it as an economic control.

Thanks again, more if you've got 'em!

-Reddist

molonel · Aug 24, 2004

To the original poster:

Yes, PCs have a lot more treasure than anyone else in the world. But consider that they also have abilities that most people in the world do not possess, and they take risks that very few people are willing or able to take.

I understand what you're driving at, but if you intend the campaign to go past 3rd or 4th level, there is a lot more going on with PC treasure than you might be aware of. Also, cutting standard PC treasure to 1/10 by changing GP to SP doesn't make them equal to NPCs. It makes them substantially less powerful than NPCs.

Compare the charts for PCs average treasure on page 135 of the 3.5 DMG to the average treasure for NPCs on page 127. At 1st level, they start about the same. By 6th level, the PC is supposed to have over twice as much as the average NPC of the same level. By 10th level, three times as much.

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
That's not going to work for balance reasons. Unfortunately, playing a reasonably powerful 3e character, especially a non-spellcaster, requires unreasaonble amounts of treasure.

Yes. I wholeheartedly agree. I've played in a couple of campaigns where the DM changed the treasure totals that PCs received: one DM lowered it by 25 percent, and one by more than half.

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
The only things I can suggest is either to replace magic items with something else (heirloom items, special character powers) or reduce the power of monsters to match the less-powerful player characters.

My God, yes. In the aforementioned campaign where the treasure was reduced by more than half, we started getting creamed at 4th level by stuff that any other party would have snorted at.

The monsters, and stuff like DR, really really need to be rethought and carefully retooled if a low treasure campaign is used.

Old One · Aug 24, 2004

Different take...

IMC, I went to a silver standard, yet kept the price of most things (particularly goods) the same in gold pieces. I did adjust the price of services downward slightly in most cases and made it fairly easy for PCs with craft skills to barter service for service. Starting money was given in silver and augumented by 1-2 family heirloom items per PC.

The PCs had to make some fairly difficult choices vis-a-vis starting equipment, since most heavier arms and armor was out of monetary reach initially. It even took the sorcerer a couple of levels to scrap together enough denarii to call his familiar. Just now, at levels 6-8, are they reaching the point where they are moderately well off financially.

Much of the treasure they have found has been made up of trade goods or other items that required them to find a buyer and haggle a bit over selling price. Typical take was 20-30% of the PHB prices.

This is the first time many of the players have played under a more "realistic" monetary system and while there have been a few grumbles from time to time, I think most have enjoyed it. Not for everyone, but it works for us.

~ Old One

Matafuego · Aug 24, 2004

I've changed the economy IMC as you described it.
I changed every gold piece to silver piece, and changed the ratio between the coins.
(No platinum pieces available)
1 gold = 100 silver
1 silver = 100 ceramic (thanks Dark Sun)
1 silver = 2 or 3 copper (depending on the area)

Ceramic buys you mostly food for the day, Silver and Copper are standards for inns and taverns.
There's also a new metal coin, and electrum and cristal pieces but those are far more rare and less valuable.
Of course I had to change also the encounter levels and the CR rating system, even more so since it's a low magic game (And progression beyond 10th level is not linear).

To sum up, it's doable but you have to put a lot of yourself into it.

reddist · Aug 24, 2004

molonel said:
Yes, PCs have a lot more treasure than anyone else in the world. But consider that they also have abilities that most people in the world do not possess, and they take risks that very few people are willing or able to take.

I understand what you're driving at, but if you intend the campaign to go past 3rd or 4th level, there is a lot more going on with PC treasure than you might be aware of. Also, cutting standard PC treasure to 1/10 by changing GP to SP doesn't make them equal to NPCs. It makes them substantially less powerful than NPCs.

.

I know how to build NPCs that are going to be less powerful than my PCs, and I know how to build encounters that are fair to my PCs who may have fewer resources than "standard PHB" PCs. Whats effects the PCs will effect the rest of the world as well.

the point is I *want* them to struggle, I *want* them to worry about whether or not they should purchase a piece of equipment or save until they can get something bigger and better. I *want* them to get all giddy with the thoughts of a shopping spree when they uncover a sack of small gold bars. I *DON'T* want them to loot a critter or NPC or ruin, find a metric ton of gold pieces, and shrug it off as another day's work.

I can control what they find, but what they spend is up to them.

I just want them to worry about it

-Reddist

LostSoul · Aug 24, 2004

I ran a low-economy game that saw the PCs scrambling to get gold for a long time. After a few levels, they were rich, but not as rich as any noble.

I let them buy equipment as normal. That equipment wasn't so much bought as it was accumulated over the entire character's life.

After that, I decided what I wanted the average Joe to make each year. I set it to 30 silver. Each person needs to spend 1 silver every two weeks to survive.

Based on that, I decided what things were worth on an individual basis. Common items were cheaper, but rare items retained their PHB values. (Things like swords and armour were very expensive.)