Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?

darkbard

darkbard

Legend
Sadras said:
Bold emphasis mine.
I agree with you, but here is the rub, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] does not as per his OP. He does not even make that concession that someone could engage in a literary endeavour for their RPGing.

This is the issue [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] has been highlighting for a while.
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You are correct that [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] keeps asserting this. But you are both wrong in your characterization of [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s position. Many times now he has articulated that all things being equal, literary presentation can improve the quality of a game, but that caveat requires that the core activity of TRPGing be not in the presentation itself but in the invitation to meaningful engagement of the situation on the part of the PCs, that at its heart the issue is not performance but framing situations that invite protagonism.

I'm sure pemerton will correct me if I have inadvertendly mischaracterized his position.
 

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Umbran

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
lowkey13 said:
But Umbran .... someone on the internet .... IS WRONG.
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Two people on the internet are wrong. One is the person who is wrong. The other is the person who thinks they can change the mind of the wrong person on the internet by tossing facts and arguments at them.
 



hawkeyefan

hawkeyefan

Legend
Lanefan said:
To each their own, I suppose.
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Well, of course....it's all opinion. But do you have any examples to share? Is there a module or adventure book you can think of where the actual content is pretty bland, but is presented so well that playing the adventure is worthwhile?

I really can't think of any myself, but it's certainly possible they're out there.

Lanefan said:
So it's a BS example then. Got it.

Had the eyepatch been in the first example then yes, it would provide a fine point of comparison between styles; and we could have gone on to dissect them and explain why we liked one or the other or a bit of both. That the eyepatch isn't there only serves to unfairly skew that comparison in a particular direction - I can only assume from what you say here that this was intentional.

Not cool.
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I wouldn't call it a BS example. The two examples speak to the two things that were being compared in the OP. One makes more of an attempt to use evocative language to engage the players, and the second uses content (a man with an eyepatch) that will engage the players.

The fact that you think it's so skewed, to me, implies that you know which is more engaging. Content simply matters more.

I'm all for compelling description and evocative language and in painting a scene for players. But to me, that stuff is all dressing. The content is what's always going to matter the most.
 


hawkeyefan

hawkeyefan

Legend
pemerton said:
about where the aesthetic merit and aeshetic power of RPGIng lies, and therefore a view about what the point of RPGing ultimately is.
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lowkey13 said:
To the extent someone is telling me what the REAL POINT of RPGing is ... well, they can pound sand. And I would expect them to say the same to me if I told them they were playing it wrong, because I knew "what the point of RPGing ultimately is."(tm).
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No one is saying what THE REAL POINT of RPGing is. Someone has offered A VIEW about what the real point is.

Seriously.....it's his opinion. Feel free to discuss it, agree or disagree or make a new point, but everyone needs to relax with this cry of one true wayism anytime someone puts forth their opinion without a giant disclaimer that it's their own view.

As much disagreement as there seems to have been with [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s point, I don't think I've seen much in the way of an actual counter-argument so much as challenging the way he's worded his argument.

Does anyone have some compelling argument about how the literary quality of narration can be more engaging to players than content? Does anyone have an example of an incredibly well written module or game book that they think displays this?

It'd be nice to see what people have in mind in that regard rather than the continuing discussion on the meaning of literary and so forth.
 


hawkeyefan

hawkeyefan

Legend
lowkey13 said:
I think (and hope) it's obvious that my OP is putting forward a view about where the aesthetic merit and aesthetic power of RPGIng lies, and therefore a view that optimization is the right way to play TTRPGs.


See? It's just a view.


How about this?

I think (and hope) it's obvious that my OP is putting forward a view about where the aesthetic merit and aesthetic power of RPGIng lies, and therefore a view that (a particular edition of D&D is garbage).


Good?

Dude- say whatever you will about the tenets of National Socialism, it's just a view, dude.


As for the rest- I am sure that no one could possibly have offered any substantive rebuttal to the points offered by the OP in any of the hundreds of comments.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Anyway, enjoy. It's not like my posts now, or 500 posts ago, will change your mind.
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Change my mind how? I'm willing to listen to your opinion on the topic. You obviously disagree with the OP, but how so? Other than his choice of words, I mean.....the tenets he put forth, how do you disagree with those? I don't think that pemerton ever actually implied anything negative about the opposing view.....he even said how most of the time it was a good thing.....so your edition war analogy doesn't really hold water.

If anyone said anything substantive about the pros of literary quality in RPGs, I very well may have missed it. I heard a lot of assertion that it was important....and I would absolutely agree that it is.....but I don't think anyone said why it was more important than the situation.

I'm genuinely interested in hearing about that, and have been trying to keep to that topic as much as possible, rather than debate semantics.
 

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