A little help with Strength checks please

DND_Reborn · Mar 10, 2019

Hey all,

For the life of me, I thought someplace I read about creatures larger than you got advantage on Strength checks against you. For instance, if a medium creature tried to grapple or shove a large creature, the large has advantage on the check. Or what about trying to shove a creature with four-legs like a horse by a medium biped?

In thinking about it, I can't seem to find any rule about this sort of thing or anything similar.

Our DM allowed an Enlarged character advantage when making a Strength check to break open a door, as an example, and that is part of the spell so that is okay. I am wondering if maybe he's house-ruling the rest based on Enlarge since medium-sized characters become large.

Anyone know if there is something about this or did I imagine it all???

*confused*

Thanks!

iserith · Mar 10, 2019

There is nothing in the rules about Large creatures getting advantage on Strength checks for grappling or shoving. The enlarge/reduce spell specifically grants advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws to the enlarged target of the spell, but that's a property of the spell, not of Large creatures in general.

Satyrn · Mar 10, 2019

If your DM is giving large creatures advantage on a Strength contest against a smaller creature, I'd guess he's just using an in-the-moment ruling.

It's a core concept of 5e that the DM decides when conditions merit advantage/disadvantage instead of the game providing comprehensive or complete lists of when it is to be granted.

robus · Mar 10, 2019

I think it’s a mistake to assume that a larger creature would have advantage, simply because the smaller creature is has the potential to be more nimble. The larger creature probably already has a significant bonus to their strength, simply by being large.

Satyrn · Mar 10, 2019

robus said:
I think it’s a mistake to assume that a larger creature would have advantage, simply because the smaller creature is has the potential to be more nimble. The larger creature probably already has a significant bonus to their strength, simply by being large.

Yeah, it's not a ruling I'd make, either.

DND_Reborn · Mar 10, 2019

Good, so I'm not crazy! LOL

What about trying to shove a creature with 4-legs by something with 2? It seems like that would be harder to shove or grapple. I mean I've worked at a stables and trust me, without a harness or something, trying to control a horse is NOT easy when nervous. Of course, maybe I just sucked at Animal Handling!

I get a more nimble creature could use Acrobatics so that makes since, but I also sometimes things like shoving require a Strength saving throw instead of Strength check. Seems inconsistent.

robus · Mar 10, 2019

dnd4vr said:
Good, so I'm not crazy! LOL

What about trying to shove a creature with 4-legs by something with 2? It seems like that would be harder to shove or grapple. I mean I've worked at a stables and trust me, without a harness or something, trying to control a horse is NOT easy when nervous. Of course, maybe I just sucked at Animal Handling!

I get a more nimble creature could use Acrobatics so that makes since, but I also sometimes things like shoving require a Strength saving throw instead of Strength check. Seems inconsistent.

This why we have DMs

spelling out the rules for every conceivable situation is impossible as there are just too many variables.

For example: are you shoving the 4 legged creature from the front or the side? The DM needs to quickly resolve all the variables and make an adjudication: Success, failure, uncertain (whereupon you roll some dice and maybe get advantage or disadvantage)

5ekyu · Mar 10, 2019

Satyrn said:
If your DM is giving large creatures advantage on a Strength contest against a smaller creature, I'd guess he's just using an in-the-moment ruling.

It's a core concept of 5e that the DM decides when conditions merit advantage/disadvantage instead of the game providing comprehensive or complete lists of when it is to be granted.

I agree except... I think its important to note two things.

First...

I can see cases where the large vs small matters enough to give advantage - as the core system already brings size into resolution in cases where height matters. So, as a specific case-by-case ruling 9n the fly, sure. Trying to tip over a statue - pushing from low on the base vs pushing from 10'up... yeah can see that. But say a grapple check leg grabbing small... that doesnt seem a good case.

So if this is bring pushed as a general rule, not as case-by-case circumstances then it passes from on-the-spot into house rule (nothing wrong with house rules but should be known.)

Second...

"Circumstances not related to a creature’s inherent capabilities provide it with an edge."

This is from the DMG advantage rules as one of the cases where GMs should consider giving advantage. It seems the one most dead spot on to "my size is bigger" and so again we see that a flat-out default bonus advantage across checks is not in line with this guideline.

Again, no problem with house rules or momentary rulings.

Laurefindel · Mar 10, 2019

While size does not give advantage/disadvantage, IIRC, a creature can only grapple another creature no more than one size category higher. So a medium-sized human can grapple a large ogre, but a small-sized halfling can’t. Can’t recall if that applies to other Strenght contests however.

S'mon · Mar 10, 2019

I generally house rule this in - unless the smaller character is a PC Goliath or Bear Totem barbarian, who count as Large for weightlifting.

A little help with Strength checks please

DND_Reborn

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robus

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Satyrn

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DND_Reborn

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