D&D 5E Monsters struggling to hit players? Common?

5atbu · Mar 13, 2019

Surprised people aren't suggesting mixed opposition. Monsters with a high CR tank pinning down paladins and fighters, low CR but nimble skirmishers attacking squishies and monster archers or casters peppering the party with missile and spellfire.
Then the monsters tend to be easier to align to the PCs.. just like on the battlefield of the Ancients..

Blue · Mar 13, 2019

S'mon said:
It seems to be pretty easy to get an AC up around 24-25 or so, which is tough on all the +4 & +5 to-hit monsters. I don't find that +11 fire giants have much trouble hitting PCs though! Once monsters get up around +10 to hit and above it takes a lot of min-maxing to create a PC only hit on a '20'.

At what levels? Tier 1 & 2 we don't see anyone reaching those ACs. Breaking 20 is uncommon (1-2 from a party of 5).

Or are you including temporary bonuses like Shield or giving up an action for Total Defense? Because yeah, it can climb that high for an attack or a round with a corresponding opportunity cost (spell slot, action, reaction, etc.)

"Pretty easy" I would expect to be like 4 out 5 party members.

S'mon · Mar 14, 2019

Blue said:
At what levels? Tier 1 & 2 we don't see anyone reaching those ACs. Breaking 20 is uncommon (1-2 from a party of 5).

Or are you including temporary bonuses like Shield or giving up an action for Total Defense? Because yeah, it can climb that high for an attack or a round with a corresponding opportunity cost (spell slot, action, reaction, etc.)

"Pretty easy" I would expect to be like 4 out 5 party members.

Yeah mostly at Tier 3 and 4, barring Shield spells. +1 plate +2 shield cloak of protect ring of protect and defence style gives ac 26 with rare items and is doable in tier 2. The Bladesinger imc had a great ac with bladesong. But usually it's only at tier 4 the acs get into mid-high 20s, in higher magic games pcs can commission or buy very rare items at that level.

mortwatcher · Mar 14, 2019

S'mon said:
Yeah mostly at Tier 3 and 4, barring Shield spells. +1 plate +2 shield cloak of protect ring of protect and defence style gives ac 26 with rare items and is doable in tier 2. The Bladesinger imc had a great ac with bladesong. But usually it's only at tier 4 the acs get into mid-high 20s, in higher magic games pcs can commission or buy very rare items at that level.

well, if at tier4 a GM is using monsters with +4/5 to hit, then yes, it will be struggle
but that seems like more GM using inappropriate monsters for the level of players than a problem of the system overall

S'mon · Mar 14, 2019

mortwatcher said:
well, if at tier4 a GM is using monsters with +4/5 to hit, then yes, it will be struggle
but that seems like more GM using inappropriate monsters for the level of players than a problem of the system overall

Bounded Accuracy means there really isn't a concept of 'inappropriate monsters' in 5e. Even when needing 20 to hit, monsters in large numbers can threaten.

Oofta · Mar 14, 2019

S'mon said:
Bounded Accuracy means there really isn't a concept of 'inappropriate monsters' in 5e. Even when needing 20 to hit, monsters in large numbers can threaten.

But there is speed of play and flow to keep in mind. If the monsters need a 20 to hit, the mob rules may be the best option, but at the same time it's important to make it an enjoyable encounter for the players.

When I use the mob rules, I make sure to play it up. For example if it'a zombie horde, it's a crushing wall of rotting flesh nearly overwhelming with it's stench. The zombies are crawling over each other to get to the hapless PC as he nearly disappears under the writhing mass, and so on. Play up exactly how overwhelming the odds are and how awesome the barbarian is, with body parts flying as he cleave a way through the decaying mass.

Satyrn · Mar 14, 2019

S'mon said:
Yeah mostly at Tier 3 and 4, barring Shield spells. +1 plate +2 shield cloak of protect ring of protect and defence style gives ac 26 with rare items and is doable in tier 2. The Bladesinger imc had a great ac with bladesong. But usually it's only at tier 4 the acs get into mid-high 20s, in higher magic games pcs can commission or buy very rare items at that level.

Reading this, I feel validated for implementing my policy of never handing out AC boosting magic items.

I try not to hand out +x weapons, too, but sometimes one slips through the cracks of my laziness.

S'mon · Mar 14, 2019

Satyrn said:
Reading this, I feel validated for implementing my policy of never handing out AC boosting magic items.

I try not to hand out +x weapons, too, but sometimes one slips through the cracks of my laziness.

Definitely a lot to be said for never allowing magic item purchase in 5e, and keeping those ACs low!

Satyrn · Mar 14, 2019

S'mon said:
Definitely a lot to be said for never allowing magic item purchase in 5e, and keeping those ACs low!

I do allow purchases, there's just never gonna be any +x armor in stock, and no one doing commission work knows how to make it.

Ultimately, I decided back in 3e that I would be a happier DM if magic items didn't enhance attack and AC values, and I carried that assumption into this edition. It's a real minor bump to my DM Happiness, true, but it has been noticeable.

(It's also amazing how much smoother the math runs when the PCs are built with the standard array, never starting with more than a +3 modifier on any ability score . . . or point buy, I guess, but I prefer standard array as a player because there's even less room for min/maxing.)

LordEntrails · Mar 14, 2019

S'mon said:
Yeah mostly at Tier 3 and 4, barring Shield spells. +1 plate +2 shield cloak of protect ring of protect and defence style gives ac 26 with rare items and is doable in tier 2. The Bladesinger imc had a great ac with bladesong. But usually it's only at tier 4 the acs get into mid-high 20s, in higher magic games pcs can commission or buy very rare items at that level.

This is where, imo, 5E can quickly become troublesome with encounter balance... magic items. 4 protective magic items on one character? Yea, that would never happen in a campaign of mine unless it were some special gonzo thing.

Satyrn said:
Reading this, I feel validated for implementing my policy of never handing out AC boosting magic items.

I don't do never, but I'm very careful about giving them out.

And at low levels I'm careful about allowing any one player to get enough money to buy full plate. That's annoying at tier 1.

But, as has been mentioned, their are lots of ways to adapt. Flanking, pack tactics, or using spells and abilities that requires saves, especially dex saves. (Which also rewards the dexterous light armored skirmisher.)

D&D 5E Monsters struggling to hit players? Common?

5atbu

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LordEntrails

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