D&D 5E Show me how to build a defender....

Garthanos · Jul 21, 2019

TwoSix said:
Mage Hand Press has a really nice Warden class that's probably the closest I've seen to fitting the 4e defender paradigm; unfortunately it's still limited to Patreon subscribers.

My gameworld has a hmmmmm archetype? That sometimes were called justiciars originally like police back in the ancient times but many of them became more like personal guards in modern times. Green Knights were one such group who I sort of hedged as being like druid/fighters when it was 1e days. But the Warden in 4e was associated with the Nature magic / sort of Druidic branch it fit rather well.

Is this like those Wardens?

Garthanos · Jul 21, 2019

Garthanos said:
And goading attack seems to have no impact on casters.

There is a fun issue... your intimidation or even active interference against nearby enemies cannot will not interfere with casters they are immune.

Tony Vargas · Jul 21, 2019

Garthanos said:
There is a fun issue... your intimidation or even active interference against nearby enemies cannot will not interfere with casters they are immune.

Not that many monsters cast spells.

There is a Mage Slayer Feat, though, that well, just read it... I mean, a 5e caster in a world where everything had Mage Slayer would still have it easier than an old-school magic-user.

Garthanos · Jul 21, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
Not that many monsters cast spells.

There is a Mage Slayer Feat, though, that well, just read it... I mean, a 5e caster in a world where everything had Mage Slayer would still have it easier than an old-school magic-user.

That might be ok if something is rare enough it isn't something to count on or worry too much over ... however it REALLY REALLY seems strange a mage is immune to the interference of the Cavalier adjacent to them. Hard to imagine they cannot ... something about mechanics being unnecessarily different, yada yada yada memory escapes me.

Mage slayer looks like it has some bite against adjacent casters but not much benefit for the targets of their spells.

A level 6 Paladin letting allies gain a bonus on saving throws based on their charisma is interesting.

Xaelvaen · Jul 21, 2019

Garthanos said:
I think well done homebrew is on the table

There's a simple homebrew idea we employ for 5E - 'Take the Attack'.

Take the Attack (Reaction) : When an ally adjacent to you would be attacked by an enemy, you can move in the way of the blow, and the attack roll targets you instead.

We make this simple option so literally anyone, from any class, can have heroic 'save the squishy' moments. Stick the ability on a Full-Plate and Shield-wearing defender, and it is a significant boon, especially after magic items are taken into account.

Garthanos · Jul 21, 2019

Xaelvaen said:
There's a simple homebrew idea we employ for 5E - 'Take the Attack'.

Take the Attack (Reaction) : When an ally adjacent to you would be attacked by an enemy, you can move in the way of the blow, and the attack roll targets you instead.

We make this simple option so literally anyone, from any class, can have heroic 'save the squishy' moments. Stick the ability on a Full-Plate and Shield-wearing defender, and it is a significant boon, especially after magic items are taken into account.

I do like that quite a bit... I have been thinking for quite a while that a lot of fiction has heros who do little tidbits that might be seen as overlapping on the specialists. Many times it includes characters inspiring their allies but yes this is definitely another, a dive in front of an attack seems viable (you could even add some small movement if you accept being prone afterwards)...

Although it usually seems to be an attack where they were certain to be hit,\ Why not make it "Taking the hit" and make it after a hit has been determined and you get no defense against it.

I do not think any of this detracts from the existence of others specialists can still make sense even with other options around.

Xaelvaen · Jul 21, 2019

Garthanos said:
I do like that quite a bit... I have been thinking for quite a while that a lot of fiction has heros who do little tidbits that might be seen as overlapping on the specialists. Many times it includes characters inspiring their allies but yes a dive in front of an attack seems viable (you could even add some small movement if you accept being prone afterwards)...

Although it usually seems to be an attack where they were certain to be hit,\ Why not make it "Taking the hit" and make it after a hit has been determined and you get no defense against it.

I do not think any of this detracts from the existence of others specialists can still make sense even with other options around.

A lot of time it does turn out as 'Taking the Hit', but I just like giving my shield-bearers a glimmer of hope that their AC 21 instead of the AC 18 Rogue will make the difference haha. Seriously though, that 3 points has -sometimes- saved anyone from taking damage. However, if you want it more toned down, we've used 'Take the Hit' as well, especially when we don't really have a tank in the party.

Garthanos · Jul 21, 2019

Xaelvaen said:
A lot of time it does turn out as 'Taking the Hit', but I just like giving my shield-bearers a glimmer of hope that their AC 21 instead of the AC 18 Rogue will make the difference haha. Seriously though, that 3 points has -sometimes- saved anyone from taking damage. However, if you want it more toned down, we've used 'Take the Hit' as well, especially when we don't really have a tank in the party.

Hmmm.. I was just thinking that a reaction is such a commodity using it when the enemy might not even hit would feel lame.

Garthanos · Jul 21, 2019

Parrying an attack against ones ally for that shield user might be... a somewhat different thought. You trade out your shield bonus to improve an allies armor class not your own... you no longer get the bonus till the end of your turn.

Xaelvaen · Jul 21, 2019

Garthanos said:
Hmmm.. I was just thinking that a reaction is such a commodity using it when the enemy might not even hit would feel lame.

Ahh, now I understand.

When we use this function, I just let the players know "Goblin is hitting squishy." They don't know the numbers, but know it will be a hit. Then the intervening person can decide whether or not to spend their reaction. They don't get to know if it is a Critical Hit, obviously - but it'll never be a wasted reaction. When it comes to those sort of things, I always believe in player agency. Never been fond of the 'disadvantage to the triggering attack' that the Shield style gives, so I'm a bit more lenient when I play rules-lite games I suppose.