"Stream of Many Eyes" -- WotC To Announce New Storyline In June

SkidAce · May 3, 2018

Paul Farquhar said:
I sure hope this is only one book. Waterdeap is as generic as hell - one paragraph is more that enough space to spend on it. And Undermountain - it' s a big dungeon of the kick the door kill the monster take the treasure variety. I could knock off content like that in half an hour when I was 12.

Serious question, have you read through Undermountain and its supplements?

It seems to me that there is a lot going on and interleaved throughout. Saves me a lot of effortand seems to be a fairly intricate work. (I do grant it is a standard dungeon romp as a baseline though)

GarrettKP · May 3, 2018

kenmarable said:
That certainly took off this afternoon! Went from just a few of us who found it (I was first follower - woohoo!) to about 500 followers and a dozen more tweets. It'll be interesting to see where this leads.

https://www.immortalfortress.com/

A website has popped up. If you highlight the black background you get a hidden message!

Paul Farquhar · May 3, 2018

SkidAce said:
Serious question, have you read through Undermountain and its supplements?

It seems to me that there is a lot going on and interleaved throughout. Saves me a lot of effortand seems to be a fairly intricate work. (I do grant it is a standard dungeon romp as a baseline though)

I've seen them, but they where too dull for me to do more than skim read. The usual dungeon-ecology stuff: Group of monsters A is at war with group of monsters B, who are being manipulated by group of monsters D (for Drow).

SkidAce · May 3, 2018

Paul Farquhar said:
I've seen them, but they where too dull for me to do more than skim read. The usual dungeon-ecology stuff: Group of monsters A is at war with group of monsters B, who are being manipulated by group of monsters D (for Drow).

Fair enough.

LordEntrails · May 3, 2018

Paul Farquhar said:
I've seen them, but they where too dull for me to do more than skim read. The usual dungeon-ecology stuff: Group of monsters A is at war with group of monsters B, who are being manipulated by group of monsters D (for Drow).

I gotta agree with [MENTION=7706]SkidAce[/MENTION] here, seems to me you never gave UM much of a chance.

I will say since I've read all of it in every edition at least once, there is a lot there. Sure, some things were simply done. But I attribute that more to the restrictions of the format and what was state-of-the-art (normal) at the time. The previous UM products lay out potential, they give an imaginative DM the start of something impressive.

Sure, many people saw it as a kick-in-the-door dungeon, but that, imo, is only because at the time that was all we knew (thanks to B1) and so that's how we ran it. Also, a book is a horrible format for a dynamic environment or adventure of the scale of UM. Princes of the Apocalypse, Red Hand of Doom, etc, they all suffer from trying to lay out a dynamic environment in a linear format. UM is no different.

Give me any adventure that has a 1000+ locations that doesn't suffer from the same problems?

Parmandur · May 3, 2018

Paul Farquhar said:
I sure hope this is only one book. Waterdeap is as generic as hell - one paragraph is more that enough space to spend on it. And Undermountain - it' s a big dungeon of the kick the door kill the monster take the treasure variety. I could knock off content like that in half an hour when I was 12.

I don't really get the objection to fantasy RPG material being too "generic," getting pre-built material to fit a genre is what one would want n such a product. The Sword & Sorcerery "Big City" is a major trope that can fuel years of play, and being generic, yet detailed by decades of play, is precisely Waterdeep's appeal.

It's like objecting to a bakery selling chocolate cake because it is such a sterotype. People buy chocolate, so businesses will put out chocolate more often than Wasabi experiment cakes.

Staffan · May 3, 2018

vpuigdoller said:
Replying to the person who said a wizard with reflavored spells is good enough as a psion, I agree. A reflavored sorcerer also does the job and a reflavored Eldricht Knight can also fill in For the Battle Mind. I am not in favor of the premise of psionics not been magic in worlds fuled by magic.

A reskinned wizard or sorcerer with appropriate spell selection could make a reasonable psion for a one-shot or something, but they don't have the depth needed to be a proper class.

Mouseferatu · May 3, 2018

To me, it feels like this is entirely an issue of presentation.

If something is presented as a kick-in-the-door dungeon overall, that's how it's going to be viewed, even if the DM advice suggests otherwise.

The only way to make a massive dungeon like this truly work, IMO, is to present it as a campaign setting. Just as you wouldn't try to detail every building on a city map, don't try to detail every chamber in a dungeon map. Establish general areas, detailing only the most important ones. Establish factions, guilds, communities, all with their own goals, their own government. Make it a place to design/build stories, not a series of encounters.

And yes, previous versions have tried to do this to an extent, but they never fully committed to it.

(Although I should say I have a bias here, as I get bored with "kick-in-the-door" dungeons before a dozen rooms, let alone hundreds.)

The Grassy Gnoll · May 3, 2018

Opening up different planes, collecting seven parts of a legendary artifact in seven different planes - Castle Amber for one, Mystara, Dark Sun, Eberron, others... be a way to litmus Test fan reactions to different settings maybe?

Jester David · May 6, 2018

"DaVinci Code meets Gangs of New York".

It does sound more focused on Waterdeep than Undermountain, likely being a big urban adventure dealing with thieves' guilds while also apparently hunting for a missing artifact.
That's cool and very different than their past adventures. Which is key. Each adventure should be completely different and not occupy the same design space as prior adventures. You shouldn't be wondering *which* exploration of the jungle followed by a mega dungeon adventure is best for you.

I'm still doubtful the second product this fall will be an adventure. Getting two adventures written back-to-back like that would have been a lot of work.

"Stream of Many Eyes" -- WotC To Announce New Storyline In June

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