Vecna v Acererak v Larloch? Who's The Most Powerful Lich?

Forgotten Realms creator Ed Greenwood was recently asked who was the most powerful lich: Vecna, Acererak, or Larloch. Here was his reply!
Forgotten Realms creator Ed Greenwood was recently asked who was the most powerful lich: Vecna, Acererak, or Larloch. Here was his reply!

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"Heh. I've been asked this many times before, and although part of me wonders what's the point of all "who's more powerful?" questions, the answer is: it depends. In terms of raw personal BATTLE power, the answer is likely Vecna. Though so much of his power is vested in his Hand and his Eye that unless they can all be in one place, Larloch might pack more punch. Not that he would fight toe-to-toe in battle, because that isn't Larloch's way; he views liches who do that as idiot failures. Larloch's way is to manipulate from behind the scenes to lead anyone seeking him, or trying to cross him, astray, so they never come into contact with him. If need be, he'd hurl his many, many servitor liches at them, most of whom are personally more powerful than Acererak.

Larloch and Vecna both have a wider reach and influence on the worlds around them than Acererak, so if you're measuring that way, Acererak is left behind. But when it comes to measuring Larloch and Vecna against each other in terms of influence, it's a matter of style: Vecna has the greater fear-reputation and is "noisier," and Larloch is more the master manipulator, who works unseen. As in, you may never know how much he's affected you. I can only go by what Elminster (and on rare occasions Storm, or Laeral, or Volo[!]) tell me of the Realms, and the three Chosen of Mystra all think Larloch (even wherever he is now, bested by the Srinshee) is the greater threat. As El put it, "Vecna is a bogeyman, and his relics do harm. Larloch undresses thee and ye never even know it." Larloch plays the longer game, and is more patient and empathic and has a greater understanding of the multiverse, whereas Vecna is more self-centered. I trust El's judgment, because I must; without it, none of us know ANYTHING about the Realms.

Acererak is feared throughout the multiverse because he's an almost-always-active destructive force. However, that's a one-trick pony. "Hah! I shall destroy you TWICE!!!" ;}"
 

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Iry

Hero
Should've included Szass Tam in the question.
Tam doesn't have much on Larloch, since he literally went to Larloch and said "Notice me, Senpai."
Though, to his credit he did get noticed.

Szass Tam and Larloch said:
The dusty corridors of Warlock’s Keep led everywhere and yet nowhere, but Szass Tam knew where he was going. Walking through seemingly solid walls, Thay’s Zulkir of Necromancy felt his body magically whisked away to deeper and darker chambers of the Keep. The lich glanced around the halls as he walked‚ noting the many traps that would have destroyed a mortal form that walked these halls.

“Larloch!” Szass called out, entering an ancient library. “I bring part of the payment that I promised you. Show yourself.”

“Ashrath,” intoned a rumbling voice some distance away. The library slowly illuminated itself in a flickering red glow, casting a fiery light across the assembled tomes. “I’ve been expecting you, Tam,” the voice intoned. “But you’re still three weeks late with payment.”

Szass Tam walked toward the sound of the voice, rounding the end of a bookshelf and strolling nonchalantly toward an ornate golden throne pushed into a corner. Larloch, the ancient lich who hailed from Netheril, sat amidst a clutter of books and braziers.

The Shadow King’s body was in stark contrast to that of Tam. While the Zulkir of Necromancy strove to maintain his human appearance, Larloch was nothing more than a collection of bones partially covered in fine garments. The Netheril lich’s bones were bright white in color, and trails of emerald energy traveled across his form. More than two dozen ioun stones circled his skull, and globes of red light gazed up at Szass Tam as he approached.

“As I expected, we ran into some Harper resistance,” Tam replied, taking a seat opposite the Shadow King. “They weren’t going to give up the mantle without a fight.”

“If they had any inkling of its power‚ they wouldn’t have given it up in death‚ either‚” Larloch grumbled. With a wave of his hand‚ the entire collection of books that lay before him scattered back to their appropriate shelf. His skeletal hand then reached toward Tam. “The mantle?” he asked.

Szass reached into a pouch and pulled from its magical confines a metal vest enveloped in a violet glow. Larloch’s red eyes shimmered briefly for a moment, determining the magic surrounding the mantle to be a form of preservation spell. He then took the vest from Szass and laid it on the table. A moment later‚ Larloch glanced up at Szass Tam. “Why are you still here‚ Tam?” questioned the ancient lich. “This part of your payment is completed.”

“The search for this ancient magic has raised my curiosity,” the Zulkir replied. “I wish to know more about what Netheril really was.”

A long moment of silence descended over the two undead creatures, their gazes locked on one another. If Szass would have had a heart, it would have been racing. Finally, Larloch replied.

“You are both vain and impetuous,” the Shadow King replied. “All who have visited me in the past have been destroyed, regardless of their allegiance.”

“That’s because the others who came before me were inept,” said Szass. “True,” replied Larloch. “You have not failed me,” he intoned. “Not yet.”

Another long moment of silence filled the library. Years could have passed for all either of the undead cared. Time was meaningless. Finally, without warning or preamble, Larloch, the Shadow King, revealed the secret past of Netheril.
 
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E

Elderbrain

Guest
Vecna. He managed to get into Sigil, the City of Doors, against the Lady of Pain's will - an impossible feat - despite the fact that gods are banned there. If it weren't for the arrival of the PCs in the adventure "Die, Vecna, Die!", he would've destroyed the Great Wheel cosmology and been in a position to remake reality as he desired, possibly gaining total control of everything. Even in failure, he retained his godhood.
 

Iry

Hero
I suspect far more characters have died messing around w/Acererak and his abode than the other two.
Vecna probably wins the bodycount award for Die Vecna, Die since he caused entire planes of existence to collide or drift off. There's no way to know how many people Larloch has killed because he's a mastermind/puppet master archetype that doesn't focus on killing or conquering territory.

As a side note, I would wager Acererak has a large bodycount from his days as Vecna's general than all the people his tomb has ever killed. Despite it being considerably more famous.
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Taken from ToA:
""Although he's powerful enough to pursue godhood as other liches have done (Vecna being a prime example), Acerak has no interest in being a god or being worshiped. He prefers to create evil god and unleash them on mortals and immortals who opose him.''

Being able to be a god but sayin' "meh, I dont care, I'd rather be the one creating gods, that's cooler'' makes you a total bada**.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Vecna probably wins the bodycount award for Die Vecna, Die since he caused entire planes of existence to collide or drift off. There's no way to know how many people Larloch has killed because he's a mastermind/puppet master archetype that doesn't focus on killing or conquering territory.

As a side note, I would wager Acererak has a large bodycount from his days as Vecna's general than all the people his tomb has ever killed. Despite it being considerably more famous.

I would have to say that this points to an interesting parallel. Though Vecna may well be more powerful than Larloch, Larloch is definitely wiser. Vecna makes all these cunning, yet aggressive, complex plans for domination, and though he frequently comes close, he always gets derailed or stopped. Larloch works through powerful intermediaries, keeps a low profile, and actuated his plans very carefully, subtly so that adventurers and meddling do-gooders don’t try to stop the, because they probably don’t even know it’s happening. Vecna craves worship and power, but Larloch craves his will to be done, and doesn’t care how it happens.
 

Iry

Hero
I would have to say that this points to an interesting parallel. Though Vecna may well be more powerful than Larloch, Larloch is definitely wiser. Vecna makes all these cunning, yet aggressive, complex plans for domination, and though he frequently comes close, he always gets derailed or stopped. Larloch works through powerful intermediaries, keeps a low profile, and actuated his plans very carefully, subtly so that adventurers and meddling do-gooders don’t try to stop the, because they probably don’t even know it’s happening. Vecna craves worship and power, but Larloch craves his will to be done, and doesn’t care how it happens.
I certainly agree. Vecna has more in common with a Sorcerer than a Wizard (I feel like Xykon draws a lot of inspiration from Vecna). He is strong willed, ambitious, and willing to make incredibly bold moves... but he never comes off as especially intelligent. At least not moreso than a reasonably intelligent player. He certainly makes for a great and memorable villain either way.

Larloch is definition of Lawful Evil - methodical, intentional, and frequently successful evil. He sits in the darkness of his lair sipping undead tea, amassing tremendous arcane might, trading spells and major artifacts while browsing wikipedia (Nether Scroll). When he takes action he makes sure that almost nobody realizes he is involved, except in the most extreme cases (Candlekeep, Myth Drannor) and enjoys his privacy. The few times he has gotten sloppy resulted in over 200 liches attacking Myth Drannor and almost destroying the place, to which he showed up afterwards and apologized, claiming it was just an experiment to see what they would think up if he gave them freedom. And on the few occasions when someone does manage to kill him, it turns out to have been a Doom-Bot all along.

As for Acererak, it's extremely telling that for all his power he was still just an underling of Vecna... and Larloch keeps a guy just like him chained up in his basement writing library books.
 



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