MMOTRPG - Can it be done better?

GMMichael · Dec 5, 2015

Healing surges aside, are there elements of MMORPGs that can and should be brought onto the tabletop? One example of something I'd like to see is the NPC system from Dragon's Dogma: you can upload your characters to the interwebs, and anyone else playing Dragon's Dogma can download that NPC as a cohort in their own game.

Obviously, I don't expect a poor GM to host more than a handful of PCs at the same time. So what else can be done to make your tabletop game feel like it's part of something bigger?

Leatherhead · Dec 6, 2015

I feel that we should define what the heck an MMO is first.

Seeing as how I don't believe Dragon's Dogma should count as one. You don't get to directly interact with any other players ever. The entire game, even the events, are just single player experiences. Yeah, you can download stuff other people make, but you could do that with Skyrim and it still wouldn't count as a multiplayer game. (unless you download the multiplayer mod, which is the exception that proves the rule)

But to discuss the point of the thread: For a sense of connection all you need is a virtual economy where players can trade resources. Beyond the obvious magic item black market, there is also the possibility of events effecting the normal markets. An iron shortage triggered by some group of baddies could have wide reaching effects. Such as driving up the costs of equipment, creating higher demand for caravan guards or miners, and weakening the existing standing armies, militia, or guard forces which allows for more attacks from opposing groups. Having different adventuring groups influence, react to, or even cause these events adds the majority of that "mmo feel", without needing massive amounts of simultaneous players at the same time.

Of course, if you do go that route eventually PvP is going to happen, and then you are going to need a bigger table.

GMMichael · Dec 6, 2015

I wasn't using Dragon's Dogma as an MMO example. I was just mentioning that the Pawns from the game are something that might work for expanding our tabletop games.

The economy idea is cool, but it would need some serious safeguards or it would probably be in a constant state of crisis. You know, protection from this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT0-OL_71yU

It would be pretty interesting to see a list of raw materials and a sort of breakdown of how much of each goes into your standard fantasy items...but I digress. If we step back from the economy idea a little, I see a system of announcing a group's exploits - and possible consequences - to a larger community. Which is pretty cool, if the GM can skim down a list and pick a handful of events to add to his next session...

GM: You arrive at the city wall to find the gate shut. The outlying villages seemed pretty shuttered-up as well. And there's a broadsheet on the wall. Turok, I suppose you can read it..."Here there be plague! A 1000 Rupee reward for the heads of the Ganon Gang."

Turok: Them! Again!?

kalil · Dec 11, 2015

Out of curiosity, what MMO has healing surges?

Ralif Redhammer · Dec 11, 2015

I don't play MMOs, but there are things I do try to take from videogames. Over the top action from platformers, for example. Just look at God of War, how the changing terrain transforms the battles. Fighting a hydra is neat, but doing so on a boat in a storm is even more epic.

Another simple thing is that sense of visual wonder. It can be little things, like describing how Greyhawk's two moons shine down at night, or the bioluminescent fungal forests of the Underdark.

GMMichael · Dec 12, 2015

[MENTION=6796368]kalil[/MENTION]: any MMO with a recharging healing power has healing surges. The reference, though, was to D&D 4e's attempt at taking MMORPGs to the tabletop.

And I'm saying: great idea! MMORPGs have a lot of appeal. Now, I have yet to see the RP side of any MMORPG, but I hope that's just because I'm a n00b to the games.
[MENTION=30438]Ralif Redhammer[/MENTION]: VRPGs can go a long way toward assisting imagination. What I want to know is: can we take some of the benefits of being Internet-linked with other players, and bring that to our tabletops?

Here's another example:
Post your PCs' equipment lists online. So when the thief in your party goes to filch something, or breaks into someone's house, the GM has not only the equipment list of things to choose from, but the character who will be out for revenge as well. Just imagine the excitement (for lack of a better term) when one of your PCs discovers one of his valuable items missing! And there's a "real," "live" PC out there who is trying to get away with it. If nothing else, it's a good system for creating a recurring rivalry.

kalil · Dec 12, 2015

DMMike said:
[MENTION=6796368]kalil[/MENTION]: any MMO with a recharging healing power has healing surges. The reference, though, was to D&D 4e's attempt at taking MMORPGs to the tabletop.

And I'm saying: great idea! MMORPGs have a lot of appeal. Now, I have yet to see the RP side of any MMORPG, but I hope that's just because I'm a n00b to the games.

I agree that it is a great idea. I don't think the healing surge it a particularily good example however. The healing surge is quite unique as a healing limitation since it is attached to the recipient of the healing as opposed to the healer.

Some things I would like to see explored in the scope of tabletop rpgs:

1) The concept of playing at max level. The leveling period in most MMO's is just the _beginning_ of the game. Then you move over to other forms of character advancement (typically item based)
2) The concept of well-known world dungeons where specific items can be found
3) A pre-defined game world that responds in a pre-defined way to the accomplishments of the player characters (as opposed to a static game world where the GM has to make up changes from scratch)
4) A solid implementation of the recharge mechanic

I am sure there is more, but these things just popped to the top of my mind.

kalil · Dec 12, 2015

Oh, one more.

5) Aggro mechanics. You can't really get the old school MMO experience or implement the holy trinity without a solid aggro mechanic.

GMMichael · Dec 20, 2015

I took Elder Scrolls Online for a spin on its free weekend. I'll easily take ESO graphics over Warcraft graphics. A nice touch was the prevalence of voice-acting over text, which is definitely something that carries over to TRPGs! What might not carry over so well: constant, basically-free resurrection.

kalil said:
1) The concept of playing at max level. The leveling period in most MMO's is just the _beginning_ of the game. Then you move over to other forms of character advancement (typically item based)
2) The concept of well-known world dungeons where specific items can be found
3) A pre-defined game world that responds in a pre-defined way to the accomplishments of the player characters (as opposed to a static game world where the GM has to make up changes from scratch)
4) A solid implementation of the recharge mechanic
5) Aggro mechanics. You can't really get the old school MMO experience or implement the holy trinity without a solid aggro mechanic.

1) I think of most RPGs as having a blend of level- and item-chasing. You're saying that it might work to have a separation of the two?
2) Unique items? I think RPGs already have this. I'm not sure that it holds up under story-scrutiny: if this item is so famous, why doesn't someone already have it?
3) This is interesting. Can you flesh it out a bit?
4) Does this mean you'd rather see "recharge in X rounds" instead of "recharge on 5-6?" Or "usable once per encounter?" I'm pretty sure that recharging is ubiquitous in MMOs. But let's tinker with the theory on it. Why recharge?
5) This is also interesting. If you simulate an aggro system, are you enhancing your RPG or transforming it? I'm picturing different aggro rules for different levels of opponent intelligence...

kalil · Dec 21, 2015

DMMike said:
I took Elder Scrolls Online for a spin on its free weekend. I'll easily take ESO graphics over Warcraft graphics. A nice touch was the prevalence of voice-acting over text, which is definitely something that carries over to TRPGs! What might not carry over so well: constant, basically-free resurrection.

1) I think of most RPGs as having a blend of level- and item-chasing. You're saying that it might work to have a separation of the two?
2) Unique items? I think RPGs already have this. I'm not sure that it holds up under story-scrutiny: if this item is so famous, why doesn't someone already have it?
3) This is interesting. Can you flesh it out a bit?
4) Does this mean you'd rather see "recharge in X rounds" instead of "recharge on 5-6?" Or "usable once per encounter?" I'm pretty sure that recharging is ubiquitous in MMOs. But let's tinker with the theory on it. Why recharge?
5) This is also interesting. If you simulate an aggro system, are you enhancing your RPG or transforming it? I'm picturing different aggro rules for different levels of opponent intelligence...

1) Well, in MMO's you only level in the beginning. The majority of the time you spend in the game is spent at max level where gear is your only way of progress.
2) I was thinking more about the dungeons being detailed in the rules. Here are the rules for your RPG and here are the ten defined dungeons and their associated "drops". It doesn't hold up to story-scrutiny, but then again neither does a lot of other MMO concepts.
3) Example: The rules could state that when the PC's defeat the end boss of a specific dungeon this has a political influence that sprouts a rebellion ending with the King fleeing into exile. Which in turns makes two new "dungeons" available. Or somesuch.
4) It is one mechanic you could emulate. One that brings more of the "real time" aspect of combat to the table I guess. Actual real time would be even more interesting ofc...
5) Transforming it for sure, enhancing is a subjective term. If you want the normal holy trinity of MMO's you do need some form of aggro control however. D&D 4e tried but ultimately wasn't very successful in implementing a "aggro similar" system in a TTRPG.