Greataxe, greatsword, and a little math

FrogReaver · Mar 30, 2018

jaelis said:
This to me is more logical than making the greataxe 2d6, since it makes the weapon progression simpler. But I think there are people who value the higher reliability of the 2d6 roll, and they might not be happy.

1. You can't please everyone
2. Your great axe suggestion makes its damage even more unreliable than it already is.

Kobold Boots · Mar 30, 2018

My solution.

Kill basic damage because if you don't know how to use the weapon you'd be limited to your strength bonus plus half of basic damage die. So for example. STR bonus +0 plus one half base damage die, lets' just say D8 so 4 = four points. This would be enough so that a bunch of untrained folks could start a murder spree on common people.

Each weapon has the ability to do the same amount of damage. Dagger, Great Axe, Whatever. Untrained is untrained.

Proficiency in the weapon allows you to roll the basic damage die and add your basic strength bonus. Criticals only happen on natural 20.

Expertise in the weapon allows you to roll the next basic damage die up for your weapon and add your strength bonus.. your D8 becomes a D12 and criticals happen on 19-20.

Mastery of the weapon allows you to roll same D12, extend the crit range to 18-20 and gives you an extra attack with the weapon every other round.

Feats lend to the levels. Basic proficiency can be a class feature. Level limits set to when you can use a feat to attain each level.

Done. No more crazy stuff and people can just choose the weapon they want to use to further their vision. Certain weapons can have certain properties that make them more likely to do things out of combat that make sense for their size. (Ex: Great Axe might have a doorbreaker/shieldbreaker property. Daggers wouldn't. Swords may negate AC due to chain. Maces wouldn't)

Sometimes you just need to approach a problem from a different angle to make it simpler and more realistic. Why can a dagger do as much damage as an axe? If I do 12 points of damage that simulates a cleave, that same 12 points could be a thief gutting someone.

FrogReaver · Mar 30, 2018

Kobold Boots said:
My solution.

Kill basic damage because if you don't know how to use the weapon you'd be limited to your strength bonus plus half of basic damage die. So for example. STR bonus +0 plus one half base damage die, lets' just say D8 so 4 = four points. This would be enough so that a bunch of untrained folks could start a murder spree on common people.

Each weapon has the ability to do the same amount of damage. Dagger, Great Axe, Whatever. Untrained is untrained.

Proficiency in the weapon allows you to roll the basic damage die and add your basic strength bonus. Criticals only happen on natural 20.

Expertise in the weapon allows you to roll the next basic damage die up for your weapon and add your strength bonus.. your D8 becomes a D12 and criticals happen on 19-20.

Mastery of the weapon allows you to roll same D12, extend the crit range to 18-20 and gives you an extra attack with the weapon every other round.

Feats lend to the levels. Basic proficiency can be a class feature. Level limits set to when you can use a feat to attain each level.

Done. No more crazy stuff and people can just choose the weapon they want to use to further their vision. Certain weapons can have certain properties that make them more likely to do things out of combat that make sense for their size. (Ex: Great Axe might have a doorbreaker/shieldbreaker property. Daggers wouldn't. Swords may negate AC due to chain. Maces wouldn't)

Sometimes you just need to approach a problem from a different angle to make it simpler and more realistic. Why can a dagger do as much damage as an axe? If I do 12 points of damage that simulates a cleave, that same 12 points could be a thief gutting someone.

I hate this suggestion for 5e. Maybe for a new rpg but not for D&D IMO

Kobold Boots · Mar 31, 2018

FrogReaver said:
I hate this suggestion for 5e. Maybe for a new rpg but not for D&D IMO

Considering it's an amalgam of 1e, and 3e with the exception of the single damage die and use of feats for real effects, I chuckled at this.

I do respect your tastes and opinion though. Just know that any solution that keeps different weapons at different damage die isn't going to solve the issue. Averages won't change. Single base damage die with character skill will. Especially since the larger base damage die doesn't prevent any weapon from doing 1 point of damage.

Far more interested in @jaelis 's opinion.

FrogReaver · Mar 31, 2018

Kobold Boots said:
Considering it's an amalgam of 1e, and 3e with the exception of the single damage die and use of feats for real effects, I chuckled at this.

I do respect your tastes and opinion though. Just know that any solution that keeps different weapons at different damage die isn't going to solve the issue. Averages won't change. Single base damage die with character skill will. Especially since the larger base damage die doesn't prevent any weapon from doing 1 point of damage.

Far more interested in @jaelis 's opinion.

No version of D&D ever did anything like what you suggested.

Kobold Boots · Mar 31, 2018

FrogReaver said:
No version of D&D ever did anything like what you suggested.

1e had piercing and bludgeoning (affected armor) as effects on particular weapons as well as speed factor, which acted as a second attack in some cases compared to other weapons during the same initiative spacing between characters.

3e had feats that added to damage, added to hit rolls or simply increased critical ranges with weaponry.

The only "new" things are the standardization of the damage die and the use of feats to unlock escalation of the die.

Be well
KB

PS. You were on my ignore list once before for debating with folks when you had no idea what you were on about. Keep it up and you'll end up there again.

FrogReaver · Mar 31, 2018

Kobold Boots said:
1e had piercing and bludgeoning (affected armor) as effects on particular weapons as well as speed factor, which acted as a second attack in some cases compared to other weapons during the same initiative spacing between characters.

3e had feats that added to damage, added to hit rolls or simply increased critical ranges with weaponry.

The only "new" things are the standardization of the damage die and the use of feats to unlock escalation of the die.

Be well
KB

PS. You were on my ignore list once before for debating with folks when you had no idea what you were on about. Keep it up and you'll end up there again.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know some of that. However, I probably should have been more specific as it was the standardized damage dice I was primarily referring to.

Kobold Boots · Mar 31, 2018

FrogReaver said:
Thanks for the info. I didn't know some of that. However, I probably should have been more specific as it was the standardized damage dice I was primarily referring to.

That's fair. The die is completely new in terms of the suggested fix. It's a bit more elegant than exploding dies based on 12s and still allows for a weapon to be significantly more deadly or less depending on who is wielding it.

The properties would allow an axe to feel different than a sword and give people reasons to carry different weapons for different things without over burdening the rules system.

The extra attack simulates skill without complicating the initiative system.

The real issue isn't that a sword does less damage than an axe, but that regardless of the weapon, given a bad roll they can both do 1 point of damage. If you have to accept that, then the matter of accepting that the difference in a weapon isn't damage, but character skill and weapon properties.. is rather easy to approach.

Thanks for reading and I apologize for my PS. Couldn't tell where you were coming from.

KB

Prakriti · Mar 31, 2018

jaelis said:
Give the greataxe the property that when you roll max damage, you get to roll again one time and add that to the total. So if you roll a 12, you end up doing 12+1d12.

It makes the greataxe very swingy: A critical hit now has the potential to do 48 base damage instead of 24.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. It just means that a big, dramatic boss fight might end unexpectedly in one hit.

Like with Wild Magic (and its potential to TPK a whole party), you have to decide for yourself if that's the level of randomness you want in your games.

FrogReaver · Mar 31, 2018

Kobold Boots said:
That's fair. The die is completely new in terms of the suggested fix. It's a bit more elegant than exploding dies based on 12s and still allows for a weapon to be significantly more deadly or less depending on who is wielding it.

The properties would allow an axe to feel different than a sword and give people reasons to carry different weapons for different things without over burdening the rules system.

The extra attack simulates skill without complicating the initiative system.

The real issue isn't that a sword does less damage than an axe, but that regardless of the weapon, given a bad roll they can both do 1 point of damage. If you have to accept that, then the matter of accepting that the difference in a weapon isn't damage, but character skill and weapon properties.. is rather easy to approach.

Thanks for reading and I apologize for my PS. Couldn't tell where you were coming from.

KB