D&D 5E 5e Hardcore: Monster Manual

dave2008 · Apr 15, 2017

About a year ago, while working on my 5e Epic Monster Updates, I collaborated with [MENTION=6801226]MechaTarrasque[/MENTION] on 5e updates of the Archons. I had planned to submit them to the DMs Guild. I worked on the stat blocks, Mecha provided the flavor text and stat block design help, I commissioned artwork, and then I got side tracked.

We as part of this project I decided to dust them off and polish them up a bit. So please go to the Celestials section and let me know what you think of the: Hound, Lantern, Owl, Sword, Throne, Throne (General),
Trumpet, Warden, & Warden (Guardian) archons.

In addition, these will probably form the basis of my first submission to the DMs Guild. I would like to start a "Hardcore Monsters" series and archons are by far the closest thing I have to something that is ready to publish. I have all the parts now: stats, text, format, art, etc., I just need time to put it all together.

dave2008 · Apr 15, 2017

PS. I forgot to mention I changed the XP values for elites too. I did a little analysis this weekend and found the XP values I gave to low. This took affect with the Archons. I will go back an update the rest of the elites when I get some time.

dave2008 · Apr 16, 2017

I have add the Pit Fiend General, a CR20 elite to the fiends section. I also took the opportunity to revise the balor some. Unfortunately, as part of that process, to fit the brute theme I wanted to go with I had to drop "Death Throes," since that is added into the DPR calculation. If you want to add it back, just up the CR to 21.

MechaTarrasque · Apr 16, 2017

dave2008 said:
About a year ago, while working on my 5e Epic Monster Updates, I collaborated with [MENTION=6801226]MechaTarrasque[/MENTION] on 5e updates of the Archons. I had planned to submit them to the DMs Guild. I worked on the stat blocks, Mecha provided the flavor text and stat block design help, I commissioned artwork, and then I got side tracked.

We as part of this project I decided to dust them off and polish them up a bit. So please go to the Celestials section and let me know what you think of the: Hound, Lantern, Owl, Sword, Throne, Throne (General),
Trumpet, Warden, & Warden (Guardian) archons.

In addition, these will probably form the basis of my first submission to the DMs Guild. I would like to start a "Hardcore Monsters" series and archons are by far the closest thing I have to something that is ready to publish. I have all the parts now: stats, text, format, art, etc., I just need time to put it all together.

Looks good. I really like the addition of rally and inspire to the trumpet archon. 5e could use some more controller type abilities for (mini)boss monsters, and for celestials it makes a particularly good thematic fit.

dave2008 · Apr 16, 2017

MechaTarrasque said:
Looks good. I really like the addition of rally and inspire to the trumpet archon. 5e could use some more controller type abilities for (mini)boss monsters, and for celestials it makes a particularly good thematic fit.

I'm glad you liked them. I looked over the flavor text you wrote and tried to add mechanics that fit your descriptions. I have a tenative hope of getting these posted to the DMs Guild around the end of April or the first of May.

Matrix Sorcica · Apr 16, 2017

dave2008 said:
PS. I forgot to mention I changed the XP values for elites too. I did a little analysis this weekend and found the XP values I gave to low.

Could you elaborate on the analysis? I'm having trouble seeing how one creature at 150% can be worth the same as two creatures at100%.

Matrix Sorcica · Apr 16, 2017

That Pit Fiend is vicious!

Under maneuvers: only commander's strike costs a bonus action, right? Pushing attack is DC 22, tail is DC 18. Should tail be dex?

dave2008 · Apr 16, 2017

Matrix Sorcica said:
Could you elaborate on the analysis? I'm having trouble seeing how one creature at 150% can be worth the same as two creatures at100%.

Sure! First, there are a couple of things at play here and I believe assigning a CR, and thus XP, is not just number crunching (though that is a big part of it), but a bit of an art as well.

I looked at it from two perspectives:

1) I re-calculated the CR's of several elite monsters as if they were standard monsters (using the standard columns instead of the elite columns for HP and DPR). When I did this I found that the re-calculated monsters XP ranged from 2x to 2.5x higher than the MM version of that monster. Not 1.5x.

2) I looked at the encounter building guidelines. If you encounter 2 monsters you multiply their XP by 1.5. So, two pit fiends are worth 75,000 XP not 50,000 XP, which is more than 1 elite pit fiend general (50,000 XP).

Thus, one elite monster does have 2x the XP of a single standard monster of the same CR, but it has about 50% less XP than two standard monsters of the same CR. A little strange, but I think it makes sense when you step back and squint at it

Now I just need to finish my hardcore encounter building guidelines!

Matrix Sorcica · Apr 16, 2017

dave2008 said:
2) I looked at the encounter building guidelines. If you encounter 2 monsters you multiply their XP by 1.5. So, two pit fiends are worth 75,000 XP not 50,000 XP, which is more than 1 elite pit fiend general (50,000 XP).

Thus, one elite monster does have 2x the XP of a single standard monster of the same CR, but it has about 50% less XP than two standard monsters of the same CR. A little strange, but I think it makes sense when you step back and squint at it

It is only for encounter building purposes you multiply the xp to determine encounter difficultly. The individual monster's xp doesn't change.

dave2008 · Apr 16, 2017

Matrix Sorcica said:
That Pit Fiend is vicious!

Thanks!

Matrix Sorcica said:
Under maneuvers: only commander's strike costs a bonus action, right? Pushing attack is DC 22, tail is DC 18. Should tail be dex?

Yes, just commander's strike. The rest are just a part of the associated action. I calculated pushing attack the same as a battlemaster's maneuver DC, but I calculated the tail effect like I thought the Minotaur's charge effect was calculated (Str. Mod. + 10), similar to how grapple escape DCs are calculated throughout the MM. However, the Gorgon's Charge is Str. Mod + Prof. + 8, and the Minotaur's DC is the same regardless of how it is calculated, so I think I made a mistake. This is actually fortunate as I had always previously calculated it as Ability Mod + Prof. + 8, so now I don't have to go back and change everything! I will correct the pit fiend