D&D 5E 5e - Just Missing the Mark

jasper

Rotten DM
.... And I'm always hesitant to write in books.?
1 .Did you buy your book? If yes write in.
2. Are you going to become so world famous that people will bid $$$$$ for a post-it of your shopping list? WRITE IN YOUR BOOKS!
3. Do think writing in your books will kill the resell value? Unless you are 2, there are too many copies out in the world so, WRITE IN YOUR BOOKS!
4. Do need the notes in one place? WRITE IN YOUR BOOKS!
Homework WRITE IN YOUR BOOKS! 100 times before Friday.
 

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5ekyu

Hero
Yep. I've had some players buy the module after I ran it, write long emails saying "that's not the way the module said to handle the tactics" or "that's not the way some streamer" does it. While I try to correct this behavior, it's still very frustrating.
Definitive answers would help my personality type and give me a better leg to stand on against these players.
So, striking a middle ground between the edges you two are putting forth, I establish as part of my campaign specs day one the general methods I will use in play. That includes the general guidelines for assigning DC that I use and how they come from and flow from the DMG. I make it clear that my goal is to end up with a very consistent world and system fit - not necessarily taking every book provided generic DC for generic campaign DC.

Then I follow thru.

Emphasis again, **for this world** vs generic rules.

Because I succeed at using this consistently it's even more player empowering or PC empowering because they can make plans and have expectations without me *and* they know that when they hit an unexpected DC it's a feature or a clue - especially if it's not given an obvious narrative rationale.

Chasing RAW in media res is a long wait for a slow horse that will eventually throw you.

Prep it or run it (and skills thereof) get you more.
 

Hussar

Legend
1 .Did you buy your book? If yes write in.
2. Are you going to become so world famous that people will bid $$$$$ for a post-it of your shopping list? WRITE IN YOUR BOOKS!
3. Do think writing in your books will kill the resell value? Unless you are 2, there are too many copies out in the world so, WRITE IN YOUR BOOKS!
4. Do need the notes in one place? WRITE IN YOUR BOOKS!
Homework WRITE IN YOUR BOOKS! 100 times before Friday.

NOOOOO!!! Don't go to the dark side. Books should remain as pristine as possible throughout the time you use them. :D

Ok, my mom was a librarian. The notion of writing in books was beaten out of me at a young age. :p

Out of the criticisms by [MENTION=42040]Retreater[/MENTION], the one I will NEVER understand is the complaint about official adventures. This is 2019. We've had 3pp adventures in the game for twenty years now. Why in the name of little fishes do you need "official" adventures. DM's Guild lists almost 3 THOUSAND 5e adventures. What more do you need?
 

Imaro

Legend
The quality of 5e seems to be "just enough." But it's this strange middle ground of milquetoast where it doesn't seem to do anything well. It's not rules light, and it doesn't give the DM the freedom, flexibility, or guidelines to make judgements. Nor does it provide tactical richness and definitive rules to support most situations.

I was in agreement with you about the 5e PHB having a bad index but not sure how logically having a bad index leads to this rant about 5e in general?? Seems like you were just looking for a thinly veiled reason to use as a segway into a (flimsily supported)?? bashing of 5e.
 

Sadras

Legend
Yep. I've had some players buy the module after I ran it, write long emails saying "that's not the way the module said to handle the tactics" or "that's not the way some streamer" does it. While I try to correct this behavior, it's still very frustrating.
Definitive answers would help my personality type and give me a better leg to stand on against these players.

Oh that indeed sounds painful. It seems to me like you need a session 0 to address these issues because you certainly do not want to continue down this route. I experienced some (the rules thing) during the 3.5 era, it is not a healthy space to be in as a DM and partly was my fault because I never properly acquainted myself with the rule set. I'm much happier with 5e, compared to 3.5 or pathfinder, it is rules light with much more DM empowerment.
As for the issues you have experienced, I can sympathise, but I have found more enjoyment with the system after making it my own. The toolsets that exist within the DMG as well as online allow you to sculpt a better game.

As for the combat issues you have described. Think less in terms of hit points, x movement and sword swinging and rather view the scene organically.

Let the kobold throw dirt in the eyes of the PCs hoping to escape, and have the PC makes a dex save or losing their reaction or bonus action on their next turn.

Have the ogre tear the holy symbol from the cleric's hand or neck to show how weak and pathetic the PC's god is.

Make the earth elemental earthglide under the PCs before slamming them from underneath, sacrifice x damage off the attack to make the PCs make a save or be knocked prone or sacrifice the entire multiattack to make x area underneath difficult terrain.

Have the dragon grapple a PC, lift them into the air at their maximum flight distance in a round and then drop them (= falling damage, prone, likely disarmed, shield scattered - at the very minimum)
Better yet have the dragon grapple (lift) them with their Tail Attack (Legendary Action) then double move (160 feet) and drop for free.

There are wonderfully innovative ways to handle combat, do not be hampered by the stock standard stat block as reflected in the MM. Use the narrative provided for each monster as inspiration on how they behave. Use weather conditions and terrain as possible obstacles in combat. So the beholder missed his Disintegrate spell, maybe his beam hit a pillar causing structural damage, falling debris (damage) and difficult terrain (additional complication for the PCs).

Remember every miss is an opportunity for some great storytelling. Don't squander it.
 
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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Index is probably the biggest flaw of the entire edition, and not representative of some average of the edition as a whole. You chose the worst, and then generalized from that to everything else.
 

WaterRabbit

Explorer
Also, the other odd thing about this. Why are you having to look up rules like this "at the table" don't you do any pre-game prep? You should have a good idea beforehand if jumping, underwater combat, riding, etc. are going to come up in the session. Granted players can do wacky things, but I generally know have some idea beforehand that I should prepare for.

And has been pointed out, this idea of a poor index is a horse that has been beaten to death many many times over the last four years. If the index bothers you that much, follow the suggestions and download a more complete one.
 

Retreater

Legend
NOOOOO!!! Don't go to the dark side. Books should remain as pristine as possible throughout the time you use them. :D

Ok, my mom was a librarian. The notion of writing in books was beaten out of me at a young age. :p

Out of the criticisms by [MENTION=42040]Retreater[/MENTION], the one I will NEVER understand is the complaint about official adventures. This is 2019. We've had 3pp adventures in the game for twenty years now. Why in the name of little fishes do you need "official" adventures. DM's Guild lists almost 3 THOUSAND 5e adventures. What more do you need?

I've been a librarian myself for 23 years, so now you see my hesitance. Haha

As to what more do I need regarding other adventures? I'd like some vetting process or reviews. I used a lot of 3pp adventures in the 3.x era, but these days I have no idea what adventures are good. Sorting through those 3,000 adventures is a big task. In the day you could go to reputable publishers to find decent quality products. Today it's like going through the Amazon Kindle marketplace hoping to find a well written novel (to go back to the librarian angle).
 

Wiseblood

Adventurer
I tend to write important page numbers in pencil on the front inner page of my books, so I can find them when I need them.

That’s how bad the index is. The books are clearly designed to be read once and memorized. Until character generation then you must look it up. It’s downright Quixotic.
 

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