Give Me Your Dragon Heist Tips

Speaking as a current player of this module in my home game - (and I've been trying to avoid spoilers)

I think we'd have preferred it if we'd known in advance how much of the "intended" game play seemed to revolve around the players all opening a tavern together. We probably would have tweaked our character concepts a little.
 

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pukunui

Legend
I think we'd have preferred it if we'd known in advance how much of the "intended" game play seemed to revolve around the players all opening a tavern together. We probably would have tweaked our character concepts a little.
Interesting. I got the opposite impression - namely, that the tavern feels "tacked-on" and is just a big distraction since the bulk of the adventure has nothing to do with it. It's really just there to give you a home base. It's possible your DM has been making a bigger deal out of it than what's written in the module, though.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
I ran it as Adventure League game. The Code of Laws tripped people up right and left. And I bend over backwards letting get off with small fines and stuff. Look up my write up about the games and feel free to ask questions.
 

pogre

Legend
I was running the autumn version, but we're giving up on it most of the way through. Just not enjoying it. Too much work for me to DM, too much railroading for the players. I think the adventure is poorly written, and I also suck at doing intrigue.

My advice would be not to bother running it, but that's probably just sour grapes. Instead I'll say just be aware that this adventure requires a lot of work to make it playable, and I'm not just talking about the built-in customization options of villain/season. Also, if you're using a physical book, be prepared to do lots of page-flipping.

I will largely echo this. My players had a good time, but it was a ton of work to make it work for our group. For me, I had to map out connections to scenes to make the whole adventure flow a little better. Many times the hooks and/or clues to the next scene are lacking. I did leave a short review on ENWorld after we finished the book.

By contrast, our group is having a blast with Dungeon of the Mad Mage, It is mostly a nonsensical mega-dungeon, but despite that my players really look forward to every session. I'll post a review once we get done playing it - sadly, probably several weeks from now.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
Oh use weather effects thru the whole book not just the final chapters. Either make up your own, or buy the waterdeep encounters add on. I made my players give me two or three rolls before the start of the campaign.
 

practicalm

Explorer
I also agree there are major issues with the adventure.
1. The players are not really introduced to the McGuffin until chapter 3. Until then it's a city campaign with a possible focus on starting a tavern. I ran a lot of other small adventures in chapter 2 and then tied them into the villains.
2. Too much relies on the players not getting the McGuffin until the end of chapter 4. This would have been more interesting if all the factions were moving the McGuffin around and then players might have had to make choices to help the party get the McGuffin or help their faction get it. (This is one reason I hate factions in Forgotten Realms. A reason for the party to not trust other party members.)
3. Very little information on why the authorities are not more involved in searching for the hoard.
4. The adventure tries to set up Zhent versus Zhent vs. Xanther vs. Drow but it fails to use this in Chapters 3 and 4.
5. I think the end of chapter 3 is poorly thought out and doesn't have much guidance to handle players that don't just rush in and do the stupid obvious thing.
 

lluewhyn

Explorer
This was one of those bizarre adventures to me. It's getting lots of love in reviews, but I have to wonder how many of those are from people reading through it as opposed to actually running it, because it's a huge mess. Lots of great idea, but horrible execution on so many things. You CAN make it a great adventure, but it will require a lot of work rewriting what the designers wrote poorly.

My biggest complaint was Chapter 3. Although it starts out with a (literal) bang, the entire chapter is a bizarre railroad of doing things a specific, non-intuitive way. Partially my fault because I sped through Chapter 2 and started Chapter 3 before I was ready, but my group threw me for a loop when they immediately interrogated the witnesses to the explosion and wanted to track down the wounded man who fled the scene with the McGuffin. And then I realized that there's nothing in the adventure to address this incredibly obvious option nor trying to track down the construct. Instead, the only option presented (other than the far out there suggestion of breaking into the city morgue and casting Speak With Dead) is to try to track down where the construct might have been made, go through some so-so RP interaction with one of the priests, and then think to cast Detect Magic on the one item that will help them, find their way to the Manor (presuming you skipped a nonsensical RP encounter that is just an Easter Egg for the DM and probably dull and pointless to the PCs), and find out that there's two different groups of people fighting there, neither of which wants the PCs there nor will the PCs understand what is happening (with the adventure as written). And that's what happened: I basically kept skipping my PCs through parts that weren't making sense to them so they could find out the Nimblewright was at the manor, and they rushed in to defend the manor's guards against the Zhentarim assailants, only to be politely thanked and asked to leave once done.

Chapter 1 and 2 are a little thin, but I think it's not too hard to get a little creative and flesh them out. Chapter 4 is annoying in the railroading of the 8 Encounter Sequence that might as well be called "Sorry Team, but Your McGuffin is in another encounter", but you could probably smooth out the transitions as others have suggested while leaving the overall structure intact. Maybe change the encounters to either be tracking down additional clues and/or finding the 3 keys to open the vault as opposed to "JUST as you caught up with the Rogue who had the Stone, he throws a Hail Mary pass to another NPC who shows up and flees to another encounter". But Chapter 3 is the one I personally think needs the most DM work, to come up with a more viable path from Explosion to fight at the Gralhund Estate, preferably with one that utilizes more player agency.

Overall, if you want to retool the adventure, try to think up of ways where the PCs could logically use decision-making and skill to progress the plot. As written, IMO, too much of it was Do the Thing the designer intended/successfully make X check or else go back to the Tavern and cool your heels until an NPC helpfully comes along and tells them what to do. Because that's the Success/Failure state of so much of the adventure: Successfully do something the designer intended in Encounter A to figure out how to get to Encounter B, or an NPC will come along and tell you how to get to Encounter B.
 

lluewhyn

Explorer
Speaking as a current player of this module in my home game - (and I've been trying to avoid spoilers)

I think we'd have preferred it if we'd known in advance how much of the "intended" game play seemed to revolve around the players all opening a tavern together. We probably would have tweaked our character concepts a little.

Other than a home base for players to hang out, it didn't end up being that much involved in our running. My players were initially interested in tooling around with it, but after the first ten-day where they rolled a 95 on "Running a Business", they managed to cover their costs and make a whopping ~80 gold, after spending about 1,300 gold to open it and get the permits, and lost interest. In real life, that's actually a fantastic ROI for 10 days, but in D&D that's very underwhelming since the adventure should only really take the PCs about a month or so, if not much less.
 

lluewhyn

Explorer
Then, more than a few times during the playing of the adventure, I would take a time-out from the game and talk to them as DM to players. "Okay, at this point in the adventure, they want you or expect you to do X-Y-Z. We can do that if you want, or we can skip it and move on from there," or "I could have you fumble around and have you do X, or I can just tell you what you need to know at this point, or we can just bypass this little piece and move on."

When I DM'd this, I wondered what the intended experience was supposed to be. It almost seems like you need to run this on a Meta level like you described. There certainly isn't a lot of natural information flow to the PCs to make appropriate decisions to solve the adventure as written.
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
ahhhhhhh c'mon guys, I just got the campaign for Christmas and your all telling me its bad? That's disappointing. :(

Without reading it yet, I had in mind of having the PC discover that Neverember also put some the lost crown of Neverwinter's Alagondar bloodline in the vault, sparking another quest after the vault when both Neverember goons (who now remembers that the crown is in there) and the Sons of Alagondar (who are still active in my FR) try to get their hands on the crown for their own agenda.
 

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