Sleep Spell and Chain Awakening

K

Krachek

Hero

• Jul 20, 2018

• #51

There is an old legend that say, once ago, a powerful wizard use a mighty spell to put asleep a entire city of goblins, in order to rescue a princess. The magic put everyone asleep except a little Imp, who manage to wake its master, and a mere 6 seconds after the wizard put everyone asleep, all was wake up.
The wizard throw himself over a cliff.

 

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C

Coroc

Hero

• Jul 20, 2018

• #52

Well, well, sleep the old Level one mass power word kill, it was so strong in 2e that i banned it (along with hold Person)

Since it is the goblins shtick to disengage, the Scene OP described is fair game. In the end not the sleep spell which the Group expected to be more effective did kill the Group but the add ons. I also noted like others that the cleric with the mace should autocrit, so a bit unlikely he only did meager 6 damage but possible.

Sleep in the original d&d had the purpose to pass creatures unnoticed. In later Editions (also with the Gold box PC games) it became the low Level killer spell to have because of Auto coup de grace. Same goes for other hold and Paralyse spells. One of the many Balance Problems with sleep is that is has no saving throw.
What does a Level 8 power word stun better than a Level 1 sleep (vs. low hp Mobs that is)? That is the second prob.
It is instakiller, Utility spell and can even be used to subdue charmed companions.

Sleep has to be heavily houseruled no matter the Edition or it should be at least a Level 8 spell !!!

 

Eis

Explorer

• Jul 20, 2018

• #53

nah that's cheesy....npc cheese still smells like cheddar

if you had an army of goblins standing 5000 deep in formation would you allow them to pass an item from one end of the formation to the other by each using their interact with an object?

 

Oofta

Legend

• Jul 20, 2018

• #54

Ilbranteloth said:

Which is a great example of why we don’t use initiative in our campaign. Things happen in a logical order, and in this case, with the goblins asleep, the opposite would have happened. The PCs could coordinate their actions to disable the sleeping opponents since that amount of time was a non-issue.

With the standard rules, each PC could ready their attack for when the last of the PC’s turn occurs and they make their attack, with a secondary trigger of “when the goblin in front of me moves.” That way, those characters who go first wouldn’t awaken the goblin before the others are ready to make their attack.

But it’s a really convoluted way to say, “we’ll each attack a different sleeping goblin to dispatch them.”

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Which they still could have done with readied actions. The player probably just didn't think they couldn't kill a sleeping goblin - he just had a really bad roll. Not saying other initiative/turn order systems are bad.

This is a bit of an unusual situation. Times I've seen it, at least one bad guy was still awake.

 

C

Coroc

Hero

• Jul 20, 2018

• #55

My normal sleep houserule is if you so much as intend to attack a magical sleeping target it instantly awakes. That is needed for fair game and balance. If you use sleep RAW it is a Level 1 instakiller, ok ok Magic Missile with autohit will also maybe kill a 4hp mob, but still.

 

jasper

Rotten DM

• Jul 20, 2018

• #56

So as iserith said around post 33 …
At that point in the session, they were talking about a retreat to rest. But they talked themselves out of that idea….
So the dm gave them an chance to retread and they got stupid.
I have no problem with what iserith did in the op.
Now for those who don’t do initiative or everyone acts at the same time or in logical order. How does that work? Does fighter Fred kill his goblin then takes 10 feet move to set up Rogue Roger’s Sneak Attack? If so do the monster act logically too?
I HEARBY ANNOUCE THE AWARDING ISERITH THE EVIL DM OF THE WEEK AWARD!

 

C

Coroc

Hero

• Jul 20, 2018

• #57

[MENTION=277]jasper[/MENTION] two things about that, if some Mobs run the logic thing is to chase them they might fetch backup else, which does not improve the chance for a successful rest. The bad luck here was that the Party chasing ran into the backup.

The goblins chain awakening - the unlogic part about that is - that the first goblin would try to either run and leave his buddies OR
the other Option for the first gob awake would be to try and wake up ALL of his buddies, and NOT RUN after the first. Otherwise the DM is gaming the System.

A quick Investigation / medicine / arcana check to decide what would be the most logic reeaction of the goblin would also be in order for the gob to estimate whether his comrades are asleep or dead.

 

delericho

Legend

• Jul 20, 2018

• #58

It's a glitch in the Matrix, caused by the game rules butting up against the assumed fiction of the setting.

What the goblins did is probably a little over-powered. But then, the sleep spell is probably a little over-powered too.

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

• Jul 20, 2018

• #59

Coroc said:

I also noted like others that the cleric with the mace should autocrit, so a bit unlikely he only did meager 6 damage but possible.

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And I actually misspoke on that - he was wielding a warhammer. Which just makes it worse.

 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

• Jul 20, 2018

• #60

Eis said:

nah that's cheesy....npc cheese still smells like cheddar

if you had an army of goblins standing 5000 deep in formation would you allow them to pass an item from one end of the formation to the other by each using their interact with an object?

Click to expand...

Inherent in your question is an assumption that the DM has to resolve everything the exact same way all the time regardless of the circumstances. I don't share that assumption.