Building a multi-goal encounter

I think when I have a bit of time in the near future, I'm going to start a thread on how to integrate Skill Challenges into combats. Break down how to derive Action Economy and how to make engagement with the Skill Challenge a provocative and compelling decision-point (both mechanically and from a fiction perspective).

That seems to be a thread that I don't recall having been done before. Thanks for the inspiration.
 

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darkbard

Legend
I think when I have a bit of time in the near future, I'm going to start a thread on how to integrate Skill Challenges into combats. Break down how to derive Action Economy and how to make engagement with the Skill Challenge a provocative and compelling decision-point (both mechanically and from a fiction perspective).

That seems to be a thread that I don't recall having been done before. Thanks for the inspiration.

That would be most welcome indeed! You have vast experience with this stuff (or so is evidenced from your PbP threads, etc.); thus I imagine that experience has engaged already potential pitfalls, alternatives, etc.

Although 4E's system components are pretty solid on their own terms, I wonder if it might be useful to bring in lessons, alternate mechanics you've learned from Blades, DW, Burning Wheel, etc.
 

I think when I have a bit of time in the near future, I'm going to start a thread on how to integrate Skill Challenges into combats. Break down how to derive Action Economy and how to make engagement with the Skill Challenge a provocative and compelling decision-point (both mechanically and from a fiction perspective).

That seems to be a thread that I don't recall having been done before. Thanks for the inspiration.

Here's where I'd start; 4e has a VERY nice system of describing how to build an encounter, budgets, etc. and a decent explanation of terrain and other factors. It certainly covers all the mechanical bases quite well. However, it never really talks about the PLOT. Every encounter is a STORY, and it should have characters, plot, and conflict (kinda definitional, but really what exactly IS this fight except a way to resolve a clash between the needs/desires of two people/groups).

What I found was, once I approached the encounters from the story direction as the primary part, all the rest fell very easily into place. Every encounter naturally began to incorporate these various kinds of elements. The mechanics of it, which you are getting into, is of course important to work out, but a lot of that can follow on from "what is happening here?". D&D in general, and maybe 4e in particular, is prone to this sort of "encounters are just the game" sort of thing where parties wander around having fights and its like there's no real rhyme or reason to it. Honestly I think this is a lot of the frustration people had with 4e, its SO transparent that it becomes painfully obvious.

So, obviously the encounter here is great, there seems to be some genuine stakes and the two opposing forces have at least some sort of motivations and a plan that involves more than just killing the other guy (though that would suffice). With most of mechanics kind of a 'done deal' in 4e once you get to this point then things really work great!
 

tyrlaan

Explorer
Bob Circle-Stopper did in the Battle of Circle-Stoppies

I feel a need to make this character next time I play :)

I really hope our discussion here proves useful not only for my own game but others who may be reading along and considering how to build out such "multi-goal encounters."

Allow me to saw your hope has been fulfilled! This is great stuff.

I think when I have a bit of time in the near future, I'm going to start a thread on how to integrate Skill Challenges into combats. Break down how to derive Action Economy and how to make engagement with the Skill Challenge a provocative and compelling decision-point (both mechanically and from a fiction perspective).

That seems to be a thread that I don't recall having been done before. Thanks for the inspiration.

I will read the crap out of that.
 


pemerton

Legend
I just discovered this thread, the precursor to [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]'s combat/skill challenge thread!

The scenario: The Evil Wizard has just completed a ritual to open a planar rift, and Important Generic NPC has been sucked therein. Now, Things of Evil emerge from the rift, so the PCs need to close it before, quite literally, All Hell Breaks Loose. The Evil Wizard, meanwhile, seeks to escape the PCs' clutches via a teleportation circle, while his lackeys attempt to finish off the PCs.

How would you go about building such an encounter, one that contains combat elements and, potentially, two skill challenges: closing the portal, and preventing Evil Wizard's escape? How would you handle action economy for the various challenges that pull the PCs' attention in various directions at once?
I'm also interested in how others would run keeping Evil Wizard from escaping. Skill challenge? Require him to finish two consecutive turns within the space of the teleportation circle (thus emphasizing PC enemy movement powers)?

Again, a sticking point for me is action economy and positioning if closing the portal is a skill challenge going on simultaneously to the combat. Using standard actions to close the portal gives the PCs virtually no chance of stopping Evil Wizard or engaging Team Monster as they try to enact a smackdown on the PCs. Plus, many PC combos require use of move or minor actions.

Ideally, I would love for this scenario to put the PCs into the position of making difficult choices--engage the enemy, close the portal, prevent the escape--where achieving all 3 is plausible but unlikely, requiring extraordinary skill and luck. All this while avoiding a TPK.
It seems like a lot of bases have been covered, so I'll just make a couple of comments based on actual play experience.

The closest I've come to this was running my version of an encounter in H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth - the one on the other side of the crazy pit with the dragon rising from it etc.

I just had a look to see if I had notes on it, but the only file I could find was stats for the gnoll leader - the rest must have been handwritten and somewhere in a pile of old campaign materials. But my memory is this: the PCs open the door to the room, and the gnoll is in the finishing stages of a ritual.

The ritual invovles the sacrifice of two prisoners - it was rescuing these prisoners that had actually led the PCs to this place (they were the last of a group of a dozen or so victims of goblin raiders - some were rescued from goblins, the ones sold to duergar were bought back - the beginning of the PCs' alliance with the dueragar, but the ones that had been given to the gnolls had to be rescued).

I know that - following the lead of the H2 encouner write-up - I had a requirement that the gnoll leader use a certain number of actions to progress the ritual. And there were steps the players could take - I'm assuming, but don't actually remember, that these were checks in a skill challenge - to stop the ritual. Plus they could physically take the prisoners out of their circldes. (I[ve just had a quick look at the module - maybe is was enough to move the prisoners, with no skill challenge dimension - that's how its written up, but I may have tweaked it. Memory fails.)

I can't remember the exact terrain of the room, but I know that it had a "gauntlet" feel, in the sense that getting across the room to rescue the prisoners required taking hurt from a lot of the enemies inside.

This meant that at the start of the encounter the PCs turtled, leaving their defenders to "tank" the enemies, with the result that one of the prisoners died. This then galvanised them a bit, and they then took the risks required to rescue the other prisoner.

I think this reinforces on of [MENTION=22362]MoutonRustique[/MENTION]'s points - when a skill challenge (or some other non-combat goal) is part of a combat, you can use the minutiae of the combat mechanics in an effective way. What I mean is that, in a normal non-combat situation a fictional positioning requirement of "You must be next to the brazier" is typically nothing but colour; but in a combat situation it becomes demanding in itself, as you have to get there without being slid or pushed off course, blocked by an enemy, etc. And if you have to pick something up when you get there, well then you need at least a minor action left over; etc.

At higher levels, when mobility increases, this is probably more likely to become about resource consumption (eg using up flight or teleport options to get where they want to be); but at Heroic tier it's a real consideration in itself.

Another thing I remember from that chapter of H2: a character with good athletics can jump over creatures (especially swarms, which allow being moved through). I remember the fighter jumping over a pack of hyenas as the nipped at his heels (their opportunity attack) - my view is that jumping over a land-based swarm of "horizontal" creatures (like a hyena pack, swarm of rats, etc) avoids the difficult terrain that they would normally constiute. In our game, the fighter just wanted to set up a flank on the pack (I think - it's an old memory); but you could imagine doing the same thing to get to the widget that is crucial for the skill challenge, and then you have the extra amusement of the fighter being there but the widget needing an Arcana check to operate! (This is an example of why I think people who say that skill challenges always involve players just using their best skils aren't doing a very interesting job with their establishment of fictional positioning!)

I guess the relevance of the previous paragraph is just as another example of how at Heroic tier you can use pretty prosaic elements of your combat encounter design to create opportunities for interesting action declarations, with real stakes (it's funny if the fighter lands on his *ss in the middle of the hyenas!; it's even funnier if it's the wizard, who was trying to make it to the obviously magical widget!), which interface with the fictional positioning for your overall situation.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Another thing I remember from that chapter of H2: a character with good athletics can jump over creatures (especially swarms, which allow being moved through). I remember the fighter jumping over a pack of hyenas as the nipped at his heels (their opportunity attack) - my view is that jumping over a land-based swarm of "horizontal" creatures (like a hyena pack, swarm of rats, etc) avoids the difficult terrain that they would normally constiute. In our game, the fighter just wanted to set up a flank on the pack (I think - it's an old memory); but you could imagine doing the same thing to get to the widget that is crucial for the skill challenge, and then you have the extra amusement of the fighter being there but the widget needing an Arcana check to operate! (This is an example of why I think people who say that skill challenges always involve players just using their best skils aren't doing a very interesting job with their establishment of fictional positioning!)

That is a vivid example...
 

darkbard

Legend
So, in really pushing the limits of the “better late than never” philosophy: yesterday, finally, I had an opportunity to play through this encounter. It was a blast! Here is a brief recap for any who might be interested.

The set up: Kalarel, Mage of Saruun, secretly betrays that order of arcanists through investigations into the Dark Arts. He has become a worshipper of Orcus and seeks to open a planar rift to the Shadowfell to unleash a horde of undead to threaten civilization on his master’s behalf. Opening this rift requires sacrifice of a sentient being, in this case a kinsman to the drow PC. Play begins immediately after this sacrifice has been made. The drow PC and the Warlock PC (the latter Kalarel’s former student, betrayed and taken for sacrifice) had been imprisoned by the evil Mage and have just been rescued by the other two PCs, the Warlock’s half-brother and his closest friend. This is the opening of play. The four PCs square off against Kalarel and the undead animated by the fell and necrotic powers unleashed at the opening of the planar rift, with the two nested Skill Challenges (Close the Planar Rift, Disrupt the Teleportation Circle) to be contended with, as well.

The PCs (1st level): Drow Cleric of Sehanine|Warlord (MC Assassin), Half-elf Vestige Pact Warlock of the Raven Queen, Half-orc Ranger|Cleric of the Twin Sisters: Erathis and Melora, Halfling Rogue.

Opponents: 2 Aforementioned SCs, Kalarel (L1 Elite Controller), 3 Dessicated Zombies, 8 Wisp Wraiths.

After the drow kinsman has been sacrificed, opening the planar rift, wisp wraiths swarm across the planar barrier in a susurrus of mad voices, and three slain minions of Kalarel reanimate and shuffle to engage the PCs. Initiative is rolled: Rogue, Zombies, Warlock, Ranger, Cleric, Wisp Wraiths, Kalarel.

(I will elide nonconsequential or nondramatic actions from this recap.)

Round One:

The Rogue, seeing the flood of spirits passing into the World from beyond, moves adjacent to the archway that contains the planar rift and uses a minor action to use Thievery to pry at the inlaid-silver runes engraved in the archway, hoping to disrupt the magic seals of the portal (successful Secondary skill check, +2 forward to next check in this SC). Purple arcs of necrotic energy begin discharging over the surface of the archway. He then Sly Flourishes one of the Zombies.

One of the Zombies successfully grabs the Warlock. Two others move in to attack but slip on the blood-slicked flagstones and lose their footing.

The Warlock unleashes uses Eldritch Strike to break the Zombie’s grasp upon him, then spends an AP to use Beguiling Strands against Kalarel, successfully pushing Kalarel out of the teleportation circle from which he attempts to escape. The path of the push forces Kalarel through one of the braziers, subjecting him to its terrain effect (ongoing 5 fire damage) on the failed save; since the attendant attack check was a natural 20, I ruled that in addition to its effect, the brazier inflicted 5 fire damage immediately. Since Kalarel has been forced from the teleportation circle, I decide to delay the onset of the action clock for the Disrupt the Teleportation Circle until Kalarel regains his position in the circle.

The Ranger uses a minor action successfully for Perception to perceive a crack in the capstone of the archway holding the planar rift (Secondary skill check, +2 forward to next check in this SC). He then moves to engage and Twin Strikes two of the Wisp Wraiths, taking them out.

The Drow Cleric, perceiving the necrotic discharge from the archway and heeding the Ranger’s advice about a weakness in its architectural integrity, throws her dagger at the capstone, splitting the stone in two and causing the brickwork of the archway to begin to crumble away from the wall (Dungeoneering primary skill check, +4 from secondary checks, successful against the Hard DC, so I rule this counts as two successes against the 4 needed in the SC).

The Wisp Wraiths swarm the Ranger, slowing him with their Shadow Caresses.

Kalarel takes ongoing damage from his robes, set ablaze by the brazier, uses Dark Imperative to imbue one of the Wisp Wraiths with 10 temporary HPs, then slides it adjacent to the Warlock. He then moves back into the teleportation circle, uses Necrotic Tendrils to attack the Warlock, and spends an AP for a minor action to reactivate the ritual (restarts the Clock for round two).

Round Two:

The Rogue slashes at the Zombie that has engaged him in melee with Sly Flourish, then uses Thievery manipulate manually the crumbling brickwork of the archway (successful Primary check against Hard DC, 3 out of 4 checks have been made with 0 failures thus far).

The Zombies attack the PCs with claw attacks but none lands a successful blow.

The Warlock calls out to Kalarel, “You fool, you’ll never escape! The necrotic energies of the Shadowfell will disrupt your teleportation ritual’s magic field!” (Religion check against moderate DC, first of 4 successful checks against the Disrupt the Teleportation Circle challenge).

The Ranger makes a successful MBA against a Zombie, then charges (luckily he only needs to Move 2 since he’s still slowed) into the crumbling stonework of the archway (successful Athletics check against moderate DC to complete the Close the Planar Rift SC). This is the final blow to the integrity of the structure: the arch explodes in a hail of brickwork and masonry, and the inky blackness gaping into a shadowy world beyond fades into a plain masonry wall. The ground shakes as a pulse of purple energy sweeps across the room. The walls and ceiling of the vaulted chamber begin to crack, and sand and silt rains into the room.

The Cleric Shadow Steps from beside one Zombie to beside the Warlock. She heals him with an Inspiring Word, then blasts several of the Wisp Wraiths with Moment of Glory (only one is pushed, but she and the Warlock both benefit from the resist 5).

The Wisp Wraiths swarm the Cleric and Warlock, but even those Shadow Caresses that strike true have no effect due to Moment of Glory.

Kalarel spends a minor action to continue his ritual, then attacks the Warlock and Cleric with Necrotic Tendrils.

Round Three:

The Rogue leaps atop one of the Zombies, thrusts down with his dagger, then propels himself across the chamber towards the altar (Daily: Spinning Blade Leap). He spends an AP to throw a dagger at Kalarel (Sly Flourish) and successfully uses a minor action Bluff roll as a Secondary skill check, +2 forward to next check in this SC, distracting Kalarel from his focus on the ritual (2 successes, zero failures). The Rogue now has Kalarel’s attention. Kalarel commands the Zombies to rend the Rogue to pieces. (I feel I didn’t do an especially effective job of changing the fiction with this resolution.)

The Zombies claw at the Rogue but miss. (I rolled especially poorly for these all night; the only successful attack any of them made was the attack in round 1 against the Warlock!)

The Warlock, seeing that Kalarel is distracted, seeks to overpower the Mage’s control of the ritual with an Arcana check; he succeeds and is now locked in a battle of wills with Kalarel over the arcane energies necessary to fuel the ritual (successful Primary check against moderate DC; 3 of 4 successes against 0 failures). (Again, I don’t think I changed the fiction significantly here.)

The Ranger Quarries, Twin Strikes a Zombie, moves, and spends an AP to Twin Strike some Wisp Wraiths out of existence.

The Cleric sustains the effect of Moment of Glory, shifts away from one of the Zombies, and uses Dungeoneering as a secondary skill to discern a weak point in the chains suspending the blood demons from the ceiling of the chamber, combined with spending an AP for RBA to create a distraction by shattering that chain and causing the demon’s carcass to shift precariously beside Kalarel. This further weakens his hold on the arcane energies of the ritual (+2 forward, successful Secondary check).
The Wisp Wraits continue their Shadow Caress attacks, but these are largely ineffectual due to the resist 5 from Moment of Glory.

Kalarel seeks to regain control of his ritual (minor action), then attacks the Warlock and Cleric with Shadow Tendrils again.

Round Four:

The Rogue uses Opening Move to slash a Zombie, now destroyed, and boost his defenses, then uses Perception to spot a weakness in the swirling vortex of energy that surrounds Kalarel (successful Secondary Skill, +2 forward).

The Zombies fail their claw attacks. Again. Sigh.

The Warlock, keying off the information from his Halfling friend, seeks to exploit the disruption in the arcane field, and succeeds (successful Primary check +4 succeeds against Hard DC). The Skill Challenge is successful, as the Warlock exerts his will to shatter the arcane field fueling the teleportation ritual; the circle will remain deactivated for 24 hours.

The Ranger uses Marauder’s Rush to charge Wisp Wraith intervening between him and Kalarel.

The Cleric sustains Moment of Glory, uses Cloud of Darkness to conceal herself from the two Zombies that threaten, then uses Direct the Strike to enable the Ranger to strike at Kalarel, but Kalarel uses Serve the Dark Master to intervene a Wisp Wraith, who bears the assault in his stead.
The Wisp Wraiths make Shadow Caress attacks.

Kalarel uses Shadow Leap to teleport beside the Warlock in a flanking maneuver with the temp HP-boosted Wisp Wraith but misses the Warlock with his Forceful Rod attack.

Round Five:

The Rogue charges the giant statue of Orcus, an Unstable Monolith, hoping to topple it on Kalarel, but fails the Athletic check roll.

The Zombies, with reduced effect in the Cloud of Darkness, feebly claw at the Cleric, to no avail.

The Warlock curses the boosted Wisp Wraith beside him and strikes it with his Eldritch Strike, destroying it.

The Ranger charges Kalarel, striking him with Marauder’s Rush and Furious Assault, bloodying him and, inadvertently, recharging Kalarel’s teleportation action.

The Cleric uses Apostate’s Freedom to reposition herself via the shift, then crits one of the Zombies, automatically destroying it: obviously a head shot, like in Walking Dead. Then she uses a Run action to try to close the gap with Kalarel, who clearly seeks another means of escape from the chamber. “Don’t let that murderer escape!” she shouts.

The remaining Wisp Wraiths (only 2 of the original 8 at this point, one got lost in absorbing an attack on Kalarel via Protect the Dark Master) shift into position and make Shadow Caress attacks, damaging the Ranger.

Kalarel uses the recharged Shadow Leap to teleport himself into the Pit at the far west of the chamber. There is a splash from the water below; he cackles, “Markelhay (for the Warlock is a scion of the Fallcrest ruling family), you will rue the day you escaped the clutches of the Prince of the Undead.”
___________

With but one remaining Zombie (damaged), 2 minion Wisp Wraiths, and none of the PCs even bloodied, I declared the encounter over from a combat perspective. But, of course, then those ominous tremblings initiated by the destruction of the portal archway increased: the chamber began to shake, sand and silt began to filter down from the cracked ceiling, and the PCs began to engage the next encounter: Escape the Collapsing Keep (Skill Challenge)!

Feel free to consult the attached Word document with all the gritty details of the monster stats, terrain, etc.

20190112_120038.jpg20190112_120050.jpg
 

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Just logged in to xp your play recap [MENTION=1282]darkbard[/MENTION] . Awseome!

This is a great reference for would-be GMs trying to integrate Skill Challenges with a combat.

Great job and thanks for spending the effort to put it in print.
 

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