D&D 4E [4E] Which classes would you prefer to see in a clone

roger semerad · Jun 6, 2019

Any rule set that wants to feal DnDish needs to have the Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, and Wizard. Those are the corner-stone classes of DnD, and they represent the most basic implementation of the Defender, Leader, Striker, and Controller concepts. Personally the Fighter and Cleric are a little bland to me, but that might even be necessary to have in a system. That leaves four more classes for me to pick. I'm choosing one from each class role that I feel most represents 4th to me. Swordmage, Warlord, Avenger, and Psion give the most different play styles I think. I'm really disappointed I couldn't add in Warden, that class is really unique to 4th and really fun, but Swordmage is the best fighter-wizard concept that DnD has ever had. Looking at all the different variations on that concept over the years that have fallen short, it's clearly a popular concept that deserves to be included.

doctorbadwolf · Jun 6, 2019

It has to be Assassin, Avenger, Bard, Ranger, Monk, Warlock, Warlord, Swordmage.

TwoSix · Jun 6, 2019

Big 4 + Paladin and Warlord seem to have a big lead. Maybe just a core 6 is needed?

Jer · Jun 6, 2019

TheWayofPie said:
Just make sure the Fighter gets Warlord options.

If it's a clone, then you DON'T want the Fighter to have Warlord options. A clone should try to be as faithful to the original system as the licensing and copyright law allows it to be. If you start giving Fighters Warlord options you defeat the whole purpose of making a clone because you're making a new game instead.

To that end, the rationale for my choices would be similar to what Jacob Lewis used for his list, except I'd ignore worrying about covering all of the power sources and think instead about just each role and what I feel is "iconic" about 4e class choices. Additionally since the original question is asking which classes to tackle first, I think that complexity of the mechanics behind them should be considered too. So my choices would start with:

Fighter (Defender)
Cleric (Leader)
Rogue (Striker)
Wizard (Controller)

The core 4 have to be there to be a clone of almost any edition of D&D IMO. If you don't have these 4 represented, even if under different names, it's hard to consider your engine a D&D clone. The next 3 that I'd add would be:

Warlord (Leader) - a 4e clone without a Warlord would not feel like 4e to me. The Warlord is an innovative class that makes 4e very distinct from other editions of D&D
Paladin (Defender) - Having a second Defender in your base rules is a good idea, and the Paladin is the one that feels right to me for the base game
Warlock (Striker) - I like Warlocks, so sue me

But 4e was really where the Warlock class came into its own, and I personally think a 4e without a Warlock in it wouldn't feel "right"

The last class is the hardest for me - arguably another controller would be the "correct" answer and the Druid would be the "right" one for ties to previous edition reasons. But I personally think the 4e Druid class had a bit of a lack of focus to it and arguably it's going to be more complex to tackle a clone of it and it might be better to hold off on it for later. I feel like Ranger might be the actual "correct" choice even though it's another Striker role - I think the mechanics of a Ranger would be an easier lift than the 4e Druid for a first pass.

Tony Vargas · Jun 6, 2019

Am I missing Artificer, Ardent, and Battlemind in that list?

(Also Seeker, Rune Priest, and, well, er, Vampire - I can understand those omissions, but it would be nice to see the last get 0, not that that's possible, there's always someone …)

I'd think you'd want to highlight the new-to-the-game-with-4e classes, which includes a couple of the above, plus, from the Poll, at least:

Warlord
Avenger
Invoker
Warden

Joshua Randall · Jun 6, 2019

Avenger's just a Ranger with a different +damage mechanic (+accuracy = +damage) and a lot of teleport powers.

Invoker's just a Wizard who worships a god. (And often has better powers than the Wizard. *zing*)

Warden... man I dunno. It had potential as a "shapeshift" class without the annoying shapeshift. But its Defender mechanics are terrible. It's OK as a tank, but tank isn't really a role in 4e.

I wouldn't miss those 3 classes at all.

TheWayofPie · Jun 7, 2019

Jer said:
If it's a clone, then you DON'T want the Fighter to have Warlord options. A clone should try to be as faithful to the original system as the licensing and copyright law allows it to be. If you start giving Fighters Warlord options you defeat the whole purpose of making a clone because you're making a new game instead. To that end, the rationale for my choices would be similar to what Jacob Lewis used for his list, except I'd ignore worrying about covering all of the power sources and think instead about just each role and what I feel is "iconic" about 4e class choices. Additionally since the original question is asking which classes to tackle first, I think that complexity of the mechanics behind them should be considered too. So my choices would start with:Fighter (Defender)Cleric (Leader)Rogue (Striker)Wizard (Controller)The core 4 have to be there to be a clone of almost any edition of D&D IMO. If you don't have these 4 represented, even if under different names, it's hard to consider your engine a D&D clone. The next 3 that I'd add would be:Warlord (Leader) - a 4e clone without a Warlord would not feel like 4e to me. The Warlord is an innovative class that makes 4e very distinct from other editions of D&DPaladin (Defender) - Having a second Defender in your base rules is a good idea, and the Paladin is the one that feels right to me for the base gameWarlock (Striker) - I like Warlocks, so sue me But 4e was really where the Warlock class came into its own, and I personally think a 4e without a Warlock in it wouldn't feel "right"The last class is the hardest for me - arguably another controller would be the "correct" answer and the Druid would be the "right" one for ties to previous edition reasons. But I personally think the 4e Druid class had a bit of a lack of focus to it and arguably it's going to be more complex to tackle a clone of it and it might be better to hold off on it for later. I feel like Ranger might be the actual "correct" choice even though it's another Striker role - I think the mechanics of a Ranger would be an easier lift than the 4e Druid for a first pass.

I only meant that if there was going to be 8 classes and Warlord was not going to be one them.I agree in that a 4e clone without it would just go against the spirit of the system.