Pathfinder 2 Character Sheet #5: Merisiel, Elf Rogue

Shasarak · Jul 17, 2018

Does anyone know what the Pathfinder 2 Playtest rules were for Sneak Attacking against creatures like undead?

Can you do it now, or are Rogues still out of luck?

dryxxxa · Jul 17, 2018

Rogues can normally sneak attack undead and constructs in PF1, need "ghost touch" weapons to sneak attack ghosts and are out of luck when they meet oozes, elementals or swarms (obscure feats from supplement books help to deal with those though). I hope it'll be something similar in PF2.

Lylandra · Jul 17, 2018

note that sneak attack does precision damage. So I guess there will be creatures with resistance or immunity to this type of damage. And we'll likely see precision damage return as a damage type for other classes as well.

Banesfinger · Jul 17, 2018

I guess rogues are no longer a "squishy" class:
HP: 16 (only 3 less than the paladin)
AC: 17/19 with nimble dodge (equal to the Fighter's AC with shield raised)

ohokwy · Jul 17, 2018

Shasarak said:
Does anyone know what the Pathfinder 2 Playtest rules were for Sneak Attacking against creatures like undead?

Can you do it now, or are Rogues still out of luck?

I believe the various playtests have revealed that a Rogue can sneak attack zombies, at least. You could sneak attack undead PF1, as well, so its unlikely to be an issue.

ohokwy · Jul 17, 2018

Banesfinger said:
I guess rogues are no longer a "squishy" class:
HP: 16 (only 3 less than the paladin)
AC: 17/19 with nimble dodge (equal to the Fighter's AC with shield raised)

Elves are a 6hp race, as well. Humans are an 8hp race, so if she were human she'd only have 1 less HP than Seelah. Though to be fair she has more CON than Seelah.

That said, the HP different between Rogue and Paladin (and other full martials like Fighter, etc.) has doubled from a difference of 1/level (4.5 vs. 5.5 per level) to a difference of 2/level (8 vs. 10 per level) so at higher levels Seelah is going to end up with significantly more HP than Merisiel, regardless of the slightly lower CON.

mellored · Jul 17, 2018

ohokwy said:
Elves are a 6hp race, as well. Humans are an 8hp race, so if she were human she'd only have 1 less HP than Seelah. Though to be fair she has more CON than Seelah.

That said, the HP different between Rogue and Paladin (and other full martials like Fighter, etc.) has doubled from a difference of 1/level (4.5 vs. 5.5 per level) to a difference of 2/level (8 vs. 10 per level) so at higher levels Seelah is going to end up with significantly more HP than Merisiel, regardless of the slightly lower CON.

Given how the rest of the game scales, the differene is slightly smaller.

4.5 vs 5.5 is a 22% difference.
8 vs 10 is a 25% difference.
16 vs 19 is an 18% difference.

Banesfinger · Jul 17, 2018

mellored said:
Given how the rest of the game scales, the differene is slightly smaller.

16 vs 19 is an 18% difference.

With a 3-4 Hit Point difference between the Rogue and Paladin/Fighter's HPs at 1st-level, that seems pretty negligible considering most of the classes' damage outputs are 1d8+4 (average of 8.5 dmg).
So 'on paper' the AC, HPs and damage output looks negligible between classes. Hopefully they all "play" differently. (Hopefully the Playtesters will give us some feedback on this).

mellored · Jul 17, 2018

Banesfinger said:
With a 3-4 Hit Point difference between the Rogue and Paladin/Fighter's HPs at 1st-level, that seems pretty negligible considering most of the classes' damage outputs are 1d8+4 (average of 8.5 dmg).
So 'on paper' the AC, HPs and damage output looks negligible between classes. Hopefully they all "play" differently. (Hopefully the Playtesters will give us some feedback on this).

The difference should be pretty small at first level. Especially if they do typical multi-classing.

And as you gain more level+feats, the difference between classes, and characters of the same class, will spread out. More in what you can do, rather than a big difference in numbers.