Ever try PC death at 0 hit points?

Reynard said:

For some people, that possibility of random, horrible death in the game is part of the fun. The key is, of course, to make sure those people are playing together and not subjecting folks who want a deep emotional story or a stress reducing power fantasy to that playstyle.

As always: communication is most important.

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I personally tell my players I'm combat focused and like to give them a potentially deadly challenge. But a good challenge for me means that their survival depends on how good their strategy is.

I honestly haven't met any player yet who enjoys dying just because of a bad roll.

Rya.Reisender said:

My philosophy as DM is to only kill PCs if their players did an actual mistake. If 0 HP meant dead in D&D 5e, I couldn't even attack any of my players because a single crit might make them drop to 0. I prefer being able to go all out on them.

....

Anyway, I don't really see any "good point" about HP=0=Dead.

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Rya.Reisender said:

Games are meant to be fun and not immitate real life.

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It sounds like you know what you like, and I'm assuming your players also enjoy that. However, I would caution about assuming that second statement is an objective truth. For example, my philosophy as a DM is to be a fair referee (what the original definition of DM was) and run a living world. My players find great enjoyment in that. That means I don't intervene to prevent PC death hardly ever. if I do, then the players know they always have a meta protection there and for some, it ruins verisimilitude.

So many people, including myself, do have more fun when the game imitates the danger and randomness of real life.

Rya.Reisender said:

I personally tell my players I'm combat focused and like to give them a potentially deadly challenge. But a good challenge for me means that their survival depends on how good their strategy is.

I honestly haven't met any player yet who enjoys dying just because of a bad roll.

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So what happens when the enemy lands a couple lucky blows in a row, or the PC blows a critical saving throw? Those don't have anything to do with strategy (other than not getting in the fight in the first place). Dice can kill PCs. In fact, dice should always be what kills PCs, or saves them, IMO. I as DM should never have to fudge a die roll, and I almost never do. I roll everything in the open and let them fall where they may.

Death at 0 hp is my favorite way to play 5e. With a smal boost I starting hp to try and keep level 1 deadliness about the same.

not-so-newguy said:

My interest in “0 hp = Death” stems from complacency I have witnessed in myself and others. Death is difficult at the tables I have played (coincidentally, this would make a good line to an old Blues song). With that in mind, I wanted to create a bit more pressure and fear (i.e. “urgency,” as someone else said) in the campaign I am creating. I have been lurking on these here forums to pick up tidbits on how to make that happen. I find myself futzing with a bunch a different house rules, which only seems to complicate my game and will probably just confuse the players. Making death happen easier seems like the simple solution, maybe not the best one though. Still not sure, til I talk to the players.View attachment 101385

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Two things that come to mind that might help address complacency. The first, which wouldn't require any house rules: roll all Death Saves secretly. Yes, they still have 3 rounds to react, but a lot can slow down characters in three rounds, and not knowing how their companion is faring on each of those rounds might add a layer or two of stress. Plus I imagine that the first time they get to a companion's body and discover that they are already dead might make an impact.

The second thing, which again doesn't require house rules: Remember that evil is allowed to be evil. If a tactically minded - or even just an exceptionally brutal - enemy outnumbers the PCs, then instead of fighting a PC 2 up I could see one continuing to fight the PCs and the second using his turn to instead gut the fallen PC. If it were one-to-one, then yes, it makes sense that the enemy wouldn't stop fighting to slay the fallen. But when numbers are on the side of the enemy? That's a "safety shot" PC death.

Another idea that I had - now this one does require a house rule, but it's a simple one - is to require healing of Death Save Failures. In my head right now is the idea of a Death Save taking a week to heal. So if a PC falls and fails 2 Death Saves before he is stabilized, if he is reduced to 0 hp again within one weeks, he dies after a single failed save. If he is reduced to 0 hp after one week but less than two, he only has two failed saves. The only "extra" book-keeping is that the Death Saves aren't erased from the Character Sheet until a week (game time) has passed. [Or appropriate magical healing, if you are so inclined.]

Just some ideas.

Nope.

A character dying is probably the least interesting thing that could happen to them.

reelo said:

Why? People die all the time by random chance without having made mistakes.
Adventuring is dangerous business, after all.

I like the OSR approach: combat as war, not combat as sports. Don't "tailor" encounters to the party (as someone above already suggested) running away is always an option, if the party bit off more than they could chew.

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Note -

"Don't "tailor" encounters to the party (as someone above already suggested) running away is always an option, if the party bit off more than they could chew."

These two statements belie each other especially in the context of IRL random deaths.

People get in over there heads without a chance to escape IRL all the time. Especially if they indulge in risky behavior.

So, once a GM accepts that there is always an escape if they choose to run, that GM is tailoring the encounters to the party.

Or do you have scenarios where out of the night four gruesomes roll up on the party of four 3rd level guys with no warning and wipe them out? Or a hungry dragon swoop in and pluck a few for late night snacks?

Or are these things maybe just maybe not quite as random and escape not as uncertain and maybe a weee bit of tailoring (actually a lot but lets not pop all the balloons) is happening?

Rya.Reisender said:

I personally tell my players I'm combat focused and like to give them a potentially deadly challenge. But a good challenge for me means that their survival depends on how good their strategy is.

I honestly haven't met any player yet who enjoys dying just because of a bad roll.

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Also, i tend to follow the main event rule - a serious difficult battle should be meaningful beyond just who wins it. Something needs to be at stake.

Only crazies tend to fight life oe death for nothing.

So, major life or death serious encounters tend to have a much bigger meaning and essentially the characters are foghting to control the outcome and results that will come from it.

Otherwise, likely one or both sides retreat or negotiate before it escalates to life and death uncertainty.

So, losing without death is as big or bigger than say dying but winning.

Sometimes it seems like some of the drive for "pcs gotta face death" and by tie-in "pcs must die often enough risk seems real" comes from a place of "pc death is the only stake that matters. The game/fight/challenge/accomplishment is **only about* "survival" - yay or nay.

I prefer the sense of "accomplishment" at 7th level to come from what you have done - not just that you are the last surviving member.

Some of the best characters have lost and survived to see and live with the consequence of that failure - not the ones who lost and just died.

not-so-newguy said:

The title.


Just curious if anyone ever tried this. Even for a short adventure. I’d like to hear about your experiences. Good, bad, indifferent? I don’t care about the theory crafting side of things right now.

Edit
Some questions I have for those who have ran this type of game

What was the character creation process? How long did it take?
How did the DM introduce a new PC?
Did a new PC start at 1st level with 0 experience points in the middle of a game?

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I am playing in such a campaign right now.

Character creation was essentially the same process and takes the same amount of time as normal. (Only change was level 1 hp = 2*max class hp + con mod).

New PC's were other members of the village we were part of.

New PC's started at level 1. (The DM expected a lot of character deaths though and gave us a way to forgo advancement on our current character and save xp for our next, so not always level 1 but it was a choice)

The Human Target said:

Nope.

A character dying is probably the least interesting thing that could happen to them.

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Only with an unimaginative DM.

I wanted to elaborate. In my campaign so far the first death was due to a dryad charming a member of the party and taking him out to the forest. Ultimately this turned him into a semi sentient part of the forest and other fey type creatures know him now and know the common language. I suspect he's also going to be the start of elves (no elves in the world yet).

My fighter/wizard died trying to tank for our warlock. He was going down the path of necromancy and even used a strange magical gem to imbue his spell book with additional necromantic powers. His spellbook and him merged a bit when he died and now the words and pictures the spellbook displays are derived from his past consciousness though it doesn't seem to be fully there. Either way we as players suspect he/the book will eventually learn how to get raised from the dead and find some person willing to complete the ritual to do so. Till then that book has become very useful to the party.

So far that's been the only 2 deaths. So I have to disagree. Character death has been the most interesting part of my current campaign.