Oops, my bad! Sorry [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION]. I should buy you a beer some time as we're in the same town!
D&D 5E Why does WotC put obviously bad or illogical elements in their adventures?
Oops, my bad! Sorry [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION]. I should buy you a beer some time as we're in the same town!
Hussar
Legend
But, really, to get back to the original question, I'm not sure you can flat out call something bad or illogical. Sometimes you can, sure. But, people have mentioned proofreaders. Well, there's nothing there for a proofreader to do - it's not like there's typos or anything like that. And, it's not exactly illogical. Dumb guards is a staple of the genre. Plus, a pair of hill giants can handle an awful lot of problems, so, it's not like it's completely out of line to have hill giant guards.
"Bad" or "illogical" in these cases seem a lot closer to "things I don't like" rather than any actual objective judgement.
"Bad" or "illogical" in these cases seem a lot closer to "things I don't like" rather than any actual objective judgement.
[video=youtube;Mswr-u99Lq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mswr-u99Lq0&sns=em[/video]
"The Hill Giants sent their 'elite' guards again."
"Oh fantastic."
"Yeah, and it'll cause another diplomatic uproar if we put them on kitchen duty again, sire, but don't worry...I have a plan."
"Sure. Let me hear it."
"I can send them to guard the outermost doors. We're not hearing of any hostile activity right now, so it's a cake job. They stand outside, together, where they don't bother the rest of us."
"I like it so far. Go on."
"Even if something does happen - which I highly doubt - we'll have enough other capable warriors inside that should be able to easily finish off whatever they soften up. We won't risk any real Giant blood in the process, and the Hill Giants will get a big flowery certificate - written by me, Your Majesty, all you have to do is sign it - that they can put on their wall as bragging rights. You know how much the tiniest little notice from us does to their morale."
"Mmm, clever."
"The best part, your Majesty, is they stay outside, so they don't ... um ... pardon your majesty, but there is no delicate way to put this-"
"Just say it, I come from military stock, you can't offend me."
"Thank you, majesty. They won't stink up the hall with their atrocious body odor. The last feast, nobody within ten spans could even eat. And we had to burn the pelts they sat on. The others will be...grateful."
"Excellent thinking. Make it so."
--
Everyone here with their serious games with elite guards can keep their games.
I like some whimsy, opportunities to explain why a single small band of small humanoids can defeat a far superior force, and creating 'fatal flaws' in the plans of would-be conquerers. There's a reason lists like 'If I Was An Evil Overlord' exist, and it's great fun to go through that and put a few of those exploitable flaws into adventures.
If the Bad Guys™ were really always that smart and together, then they'd win. Hubris, incompetence, overthinking, doubting the wise words of smarter underlings...these are all the unmaking of a BBEG.
"Oh fantastic."
"Yeah, and it'll cause another diplomatic uproar if we put them on kitchen duty again, sire, but don't worry...I have a plan."
"Sure. Let me hear it."
"I can send them to guard the outermost doors. We're not hearing of any hostile activity right now, so it's a cake job. They stand outside, together, where they don't bother the rest of us."
"I like it so far. Go on."
"Even if something does happen - which I highly doubt - we'll have enough other capable warriors inside that should be able to easily finish off whatever they soften up. We won't risk any real Giant blood in the process, and the Hill Giants will get a big flowery certificate - written by me, Your Majesty, all you have to do is sign it - that they can put on their wall as bragging rights. You know how much the tiniest little notice from us does to their morale."
"Mmm, clever."
"The best part, your Majesty, is they stay outside, so they don't ... um ... pardon your majesty, but there is no delicate way to put this-"
"Just say it, I come from military stock, you can't offend me."
"Thank you, majesty. They won't stink up the hall with their atrocious body odor. The last feast, nobody within ten spans could even eat. And we had to burn the pelts they sat on. The others will be...grateful."
"Excellent thinking. Make it so."
--
Everyone here with their serious games with elite guards can keep their games.
I like some whimsy, opportunities to explain why a single small band of small humanoids can defeat a far superior force, and creating 'fatal flaws' in the plans of would-be conquerers. There's a reason lists like 'If I Was An Evil Overlord' exist, and it's great fun to go through that and put a few of those exploitable flaws into adventures.
If the Bad Guys™ were really always that smart and together, then they'd win. Hubris, incompetence, overthinking, doubting the wise words of smarter underlings...these are all the unmaking of a BBEG.
Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
I see someone is commenting without knowing the context:"The Hill Giants sent their 'elite' guards again."
"Oh fantastic."
"Yeah, and it'll cause another diplomatic uproar if we put them on kitchen duty again, sire, but don't worry...I have a plan."
"Sure. Let me hear it."
"I can send them to guard the outermost doors. We're not hearing of any hostile activity right now, so it's a cake job. They stand outside, together, where they don't bother the rest of us."
"I like it so far. Go on."
"Even if something does happen - which I highly doubt - we'll have enough other capable warriors inside that should be able to easily finish off whatever they soften up. We won't risk any real Giant blood in the process, and the Hill Giants will get a big flowery certificate - written by me, Your Majesty, all you have to do is sign it - that they can put on their wall as bragging rights. You know how much the tiniest little notice from us does to their morale."
"Mmm, clever."
"The best part, your Majesty, is they stay outside, so they don't ... um ... pardon your majesty, but there is no delicate way to put this-"
"Just say it, I come from military stock, you can't offend me."
"Thank you, majesty. They won't stink up the hall with their atrocious body odor. The last feast, nobody within ten spans could even eat. And we had to burn the pelts they sat on. The others will be...grateful."
"Excellent thinking. Make it so."
--
Everyone here with their serious games with elite guards can keep their games.
I like some whimsy, opportunities to explain why a single small band of small humanoids can defeat a far superior force, and creating 'fatal flaws' in the plans of would-be conquerers. There's a reason lists like 'If I Was An Evil Overlord' exist, and it's great fun to go through that and put a few of those exploitable flaws into adventures.
If the Bad Guyswere really always that smart and together, then they'd win. Hubris, incompetence, overthinking, doubting the wise words of smarter underlings...these are all the unmaking of a BBEG.
were really always that smart and together, then they'd win. Hubris, incompetence, overthinking, doubting the wise words of smarter underlings...these are all the unmaking of a BBEG.
The Storm Giant king has been abducted, the Queen is dead, the ordening is broken and all the giant races are on a power struggle for control. This makes the long winded explanation above not applicable and exposed the core reason hill giant guards aren't logical on its face.
Eltab
Lord of the Hidden Layer
In other words, nobody is in charge to set up a better defense that takes into consideration the changed situation.
Several individuals have doubtless thought of it, and crafted a better plan, but don't have the authority to say "Make it so".
And therefore, the normal plan - which works just fine under normal circumstances - is not changed.
Now enter the PCs...
I prefer 'humorous', thank you
Satyrn
First Post
Why would you expect logical decision making in the midst of such an upheaval?
Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
Nobody noticed the rival other giants standing around outside of the royal chambers? Sure, I can buy that, for a day or so; but it's been weeks since the king was abducted and relations between giant races have been deteriorating, not improving.
And, again, I'm not saying that you can't invent new facts and change the underlying situation to make it make sense -- clearly lots of you can do this, and so can I (I've often had to with SKT). However, this doesn't change the issue that the original fact pattern doesn't provide any reasons whatsoever to explain the very strange situation of a pair of rival hill giants standing guard on the beleaguered Storm giant royal family. And nothing for this is provided at all. In a game about the giant society coming apart based on race, that's not a small oversight (pun intended).
Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
Sure, a generic set of an 'awful lot of problems', but these aren't dealing with a generic set of problems, they're dealing with a set of problems that can threaten storm giants. Plus, the description of the guards says they are "exceedingly stupid" and that they will fall for even simple ruses if the character passes a Charisma (Deception) check versus the giant's Wisdom (Insight), which is -1. Further, there's an actual error in the stat block for Tug and Cog, but it's the same one from the MM, so....
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