Unearthed Arcana Revised Artificer Survey now available

Charlaquin · May 31, 2019

Psyzhran2357 said:
That runs entirely counter to the conceits of Eberron, where the goddamn cook in the burger shop down the street is probably a Magewright knows Prestidigitation and Purify Food and Drink, and so do all of his competitors. Given that the Artificer will be releasing in either the final version of the WGtE or the upcoming as-of-now unnamed Eberron book being designed by Welch, it makes sense that the Artificer is a Magewright on steroids.

I think a non-spellcasting Artificer would fit fine in Eberron. It’s not like they wouldn’t be able to make scrolls, potions, wands, etc. with which to produce the effects of spells.

tglassy said:
I think people get too worked up over "Spell Slots". They're just a mechanic, a means by which the character can do something. They don't mean "magical power". or at least, they don't have to. "Spells" and "Spell Slots" are a way of giving a variety of options for things to do in a given situation, and a limit on how to do them, without writing out a special mechanic just for this class to do the same. The pdf even says as much in the sidebar. You wanna cure someone, but don't want to be channeling "Divine magic"? Sure, you have a salve you can put on them that you've been working on. You want to cast "Disguise Self", but with no magic? Sure, you figured out how to do a hologram on yourself, either through advanced tech or Rune Magic or something similar.

This way, there's a huge list of effects they can do (spells) but a limit on how many times they can do them (spell slots). It's naturally upgraded as the character levels, it's on par with other classes in the progression, and most importantly, they don't have to recreate the wheel to give you "something unique". If you don't like spell slots, don't call them spell slots. Call them Artificer Slots or Gadget Uses or something like that, that just so happen to have the same functionality as Spell Slots.

Ugh. If there’s one thing I dislike more than a spellcasting Artificer, it’s a spellcasting Artificer that tries to pretend it’s not casting spells because it calls its spells something different. I don’t want the Artificer to be a spellcaster, but if it has to be out of some kind of adherence to the artistic vision of Eberron or whatever, at least have the decency to call those spells what they are. A sidebar saying “you can use thieves tools as a spellcasting focus and describe your spells however you want!” doesn’t actually make it any less of a spellcasting class. I can already describe my spells however I want, and no one ever actually describes their spells anyway. I’m not opposed to the idea of a spellcasting Artificer existing, but please at least give us a non-spellcasting option.

I also don’t buy the “this way they don’t have to recreate the wheel to give you ‘something unique’” argument. The wheel’s already been recreated and called Infusions.

Cap'n Kobold · May 31, 2019

Charlaquin said:
I think a non-spellcasting Artificer would fit fine in Eberron. It’s not like they wouldn’t be able to make scrolls, potions, wands, etc. with which to produce the effects of spells.

Interesting. Where do you draw the line between "Created a tool that can cast a spell x times/day." and "Can cast a spell x times/day from a tool they created."

Ugh. If there’s one thing I dislike more than a spellcasting Artificer, it’s a spellcasting Artificer that tries to pretend it’s not casting spells because it calls its spells something different. I don’t want the Artificer to be a spellcaster, but if it has to be out of some kind of adherence to the artistic vision of Eberron or whatever, at least have the decency to call those spells what they are. A sidebar saying “you can use thieves tools as a spellcasting focus and describe your spells however you want!” doesn’t actually make it any less of a spellcasting class. I can already describe my spells however I want, and no one ever actually describes their spells anyway. I’m not opposed to the idea of a spellcasting Artificer existing, but please at least give us a non-spellcasting option.

So it is purely the mechanics of spells that you have issue with? Spell slots? The ability to pick and choose a spell that you spend a spell slot on at the point of casting rather than the beginning of the day?

I also don’t buy the “this way they don’t have to recreate the wheel to give you ‘something unique’” argument. The wheel’s already been recreated and called Infusions.

Infusions as in the 5e version or the 3.5ed version?

Charlaquin · Jun 1, 2019

Cap'n Kobold said:
Interesting. Where do you draw the line between "Created a tool that can cast a spell x times/day." and "Can cast a spell x times/day from a tool they created."

I don’t want to come off sounding snarky here, but the point where you create the tool.

Cap'n Kobold said:
So it is purely the mechanics of spells that you have issue with? Spell slots? The ability to pick and choose a spell that you spend a spell slot on at the point of casting rather than the beginning of the day?

Out of the options, I guess spell slots. But it’s really more of a hollistic thing. If it looks like a spell, acts like a spell, and quacks like a spell, calling it an Infusion or a Psionic Discipline doesn’t make it not a spell.

Cap'n Kobold said:
Infusions as in the 5e version or the 3.5ed version?

The 5e version. From what I recall, the 3.5 version was more or less spells by another name.

Cap'n Kobold · Jun 1, 2019

Charlaquin said:
I don’t want to come off sounding snarky here, but the point where you create the tool.

Out of the options, I guess spell slots. But it’s really more of a hollistic thing. If it looks like a spell, acts like a spell, and quacks like a spell, calling it an Infusion or a Psionic Discipline doesn’t make it not a spell.

The 5e version. From what I recall, the 3.5 version was more or less spells by another name.

OK. So you're thinking increase the infusion pool and add wands, scrolls and potions to the options available to be created over a long rest?

Charlaquin · Jun 1, 2019

Cap'n Kobold said:
OK. So you're thinking increase the infusion pool and add wands, scrolls and potions to the options available to be created over a long rest?

That would be a good way to do it, in my opinion.

FlyingChihuahua · Jun 1, 2019

MonkeezOnFire said:
Basically, you can flavour the class in a number of ways to make it your own. It's designed primarily with Eberron in mind but with enough creativity you can adopt it into a number of places.

Creativity? In TTRPG's? Surely you are mad.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 1, 2019

Speaking as someone who has actually tried the infinite-bottles-satchel Alchemist in actual play, I can tell you this: it sucks! Boring and repetitive, difficult to keep track of who has used it's healing potions, bitty and unfocused, and it has a spell list as well!

I've also played the spells-refluffed-as-potions Alchemist in Pathfinder, and you know what? It works really well.

So there comes a point when you have to throw out the high concepts and exotic mechanics and settle for what is fun to actually play.

Leatherhead · Jun 1, 2019

I joined the chorus of people clamoring on about the pets.
The artificial mind is too cumbersome for it's intended combat usage, which really drags down the rest of the Archivist because everything is tied up to it.
The Battle Smith could be split down the middle between the Int-paladin and the Iron Defender for two perfectly functional and flavorful subclasses. Leaving them smashed together as one subclass is overkill.
The turrets feel more like "Well the other artificers have a pet, we have to check that box here too!" than a properly thought out feature. Heck, they don't even scale.
And astonishingly, my only complaint about the homunculous is that it can't actually heal.

Seramus · Jun 1, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
If you deleted the alchemist's homunculus you are left with an extremely weak class all round. It's a spellcaster who gains spells at half the rate of other spellcasters. I would leave it alone since a complete reworking would prevent the release of the class anytime soon

I would delete the homunculus in a heartbeat. It has very little to do with alchemy, and the whole subclass has nothing that screams “I am doing alchemy!” It needs a signature ability that actually feels like you are doing alchemy on a moment to moment basis. One that isn’t just flavor with your toolkit.

Whether you liked the bottle throwing version or not, it at least felt like you were doing something alchemical every round.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 1, 2019

Seramus said:
I would delete the homunculus in a heartbeat. It has very little to do with alchemy, and the whole subclass has nothing that screams “I am doing alchemy!” It needs a signature ability that actually feels like you are doing alchemy on a moment to moment basis. One that isn’t just flavor with your toolkit.

Whether you liked the bottle throwing version or not, it at least felt like you were doing something alchemical every round.

No matter how un-fun it is to play or how many more years we have to wait...