D&D 5E Berserker Barbarians: Wait what?

MiraMels · Jun 12, 2019

What I think folk ignore when this conversation comes up is the utility and use of the Berserker's 6th level ability, the one that makes them flat out immune to the Frightened and Charmed condition while raging, as well as how the barbarian's abundant sources of advantage help to mitigate the penalty of multiple levels of exhaustion.

But especially the immunity to Charm and Fear at 6th level, its been relevant far more often than i was expecting it to be in the four levels I've played with it.

shadowoflameth · Jun 12, 2019

I played the berzerker to 20th level and never had a problem. the 1st level of exhaustion is negligible but if you reserve frenzy for the tough fights you'll be OK. I had two levels of exhaustion once and we long rested after that. True you don't want to get hit by effects that cause exhaustion because you never know when you'll have to throw caution to the wind against the big bad. And having skill checks disadvantaged isn't nothing. Doing without armor is one of your classes best abilities. it lets you be stealthy especially if you're a dex build barbarian or athletic or acrobatic and you want to take advantage of those.

Hawk Diesel · Jun 12, 2019

MiraMels said:
What I think folk ignore when this conversation comes up is the utility and use of the Berserker's 6th level ability, the one that makes them flat out immune to the Frightened and Charmed condition while raging, as well as how the barbarian's abundant sources of advantage help to mitigate the penalty of multiple levels of exhaustion.

But especially the immunity to Charm and Fear at 6th level, its been relevant far more often than i was expecting it to be in the four levels I've played with it.

How are they mitigated? They get advantage on Strength saves and ability checks, but only while raging. With high enough levels of exhaustion, they could mitigate their disadvantage on attack rolls, but only at the cost of making them more vulnerable to attack. Their fast movement only slightly mitigates a speed penalty with 2 levels of exhaustion, but does nothing if you get to the point where your movement becomes 0.

Besides, what is the point playing a character where your abilities only help make you average within a group of specialists who excel at their particular focus? Why does a berserker have to use their resources to mitigate penalties for playing their character as it is intended to be played? Especially when I could play a different kind of barbarian with no such concerns.

I'll give you the immunity at level 6 is potent, but it is also a passive ability. The barbarian can't control what the DM throws at them. So how often it shows up or is useful is completely out of the player's hands.

Hawk Diesel · Jun 12, 2019

shadowoflameth said:
I played the berzerker to 20th level and never had a problem. the 1st level of exhaustion is negligible but if you reserve frenzy for the tough fights you'll be OK. I had two levels of exhaustion once and we long rested after that. True you don't want to get hit by effects that cause exhaustion because you never know when you'll have to throw caution to the wind against the big bad. And having skill checks disadvantaged isn't nothing. Doing without armor is one of your classes best abilities. it lets you be stealthy especially if you're a dex build barbarian or athletic or acrobatic and you want to take advantage of those.

How do you build a Barbarian around Dex? Both rage and reckless attack specify that they must be with melee attacks using strength in order to benefit from those abilities.

jaelis · Jun 12, 2019

Hawk Diesel said:
How do you build a Barbarian around Dex? Both rage and reckless attack specify that they must be with melee attacks using strength in order to benefit from those abilities.

You just don't use those things. I've always been a bit skeptical, but you can read about it here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...ul-Destruction-A-Guide-to-Dex-Based-Barbarism

Zardnaar · Jun 12, 2019

Hawk Diesel said:
So... a berserker barbarian using frenzy is more taxing than a spell caster casting any spell above 3rd level?

See, this is the thing that gets me. A berserker barbarian could literally frenzy themselves to death, yet a spell caster can cast spells non-stop round after round, and then cast cantrips indefinitely after running out, and there is no explicit exhaustion mechanic tied to that. A high level spellcaster could obliterate a small town with meteor swarm, and it is no more taxing than swinging a dagger. But a barbarian wants to swing that dagger one more time per round... that's the line!

A paladin could smite on every single attack until they run out of spell slots, but no exhaustion mechanic there. No penalty for using their signature ability.

Hell, a dual wielding fighter can eventually get 4 attacks a round, even a level 5 monk, but Moloch forbid a barbarian to get THREE attacks in a round!

You know the 3rd attack at low levels is very very good.

Hawk Diesel · Jun 12, 2019

Zardnaar said:
You know the 3rd attack at low levels is very very good.

Sure. I also know that it doesn't stay that way. By 5th level a fighter and monk are doing that same or more without risk of exhaustion. Are they using a Greatsword or Maul when they do it? No. But the damage difference is neglible compared to the fact that the barbarian must use a limited resource (rage) and take on a level of exhaustion for a privilege that the 5th level fighter and monk essentially get for free.

Zardnaar · Jun 12, 2019

And at 5 level the barbarian also gets 2 attacks and can frenzy for a 3rd.

Hawk Diesel · Jun 12, 2019

Zardnaar said:
And at 5 level the barbarian also gets 2 attacks and can frenzy for a 3rd.

Sorry, I edited out that last part because I realized I read your post wrong. My bad.

But yes, they do. And so can a monk with martial arts or a fighter that is dual wielding. Where is their penalty? Where is their resource expenditure?

BookBarbarian · Jun 12, 2019

Switching Retaliation and Frenzy is an elegant solution to the problem.

In fact I find the Berserker striking back when hit more thematic than getting more attacks in a frenzy.

Still simply removing exhaustion from frenzy just brings them in line with a Zealot anyway.