Variant weapon table

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
** OK, one more update, probably my last iteration. Thanks for all the help! **
(Note previous versions are available as attachments)

I've never been quite satisfied with the 5e weapon table. Namely, I don't like the inconsistencies in weapon quality, nor the lack of differentiation between weapons. However, I didn't want to add much complexity or change the overall game balance.

After a lot of tinkering, testing and feedback here, I think I have something I'm happy w. Since the table forum codes are still broken, I'll post images here and attach a pdf.

weapons1.png

weapons2.png



Changes:

I gave more weapons the Versatile, and added a feat for them that includes some differentiation. The feat I think covers a niche that isn't currently well supported, and the differentiation gives a little more historical and stylistic flavor to the weapons.

I added the primitive property; I imagine a lot of tables would play this way anyway, but I like having it spelled out.

The reaping property was mainly added to balance the greataxe's d12 to the greatsword's 2d6, in a thematic way that I think greataxers will appreciate. Recall that a hit on a paralyzed or unconscious opponent is already a crit, so this can be considered a limited form of extra crit damage.

Individual weapons:
[sblock]
Club gets the primitive property.
I upped the greatclub damage and made it heavy, to distinguish from the quarterstaff.
I moved the handaxe to martial, since it is as good as other martial weapons.
The quarterstaff is two-handed, as it should always have been. As such it gets added to the monk weapon list.
The sickle gets the reaping property, which fits the theme and makes it more competitive with the dagger and light hammer.

The dart gets the quickdraw property, but looses finesse. This makes it a good option for Dex-based throwers, giving it a sensible niche in the game. I added it to the monk weapon list since it is no longer superfluous to the dagger and can model a shuriken etc.
Sling gets the primitive property.

I made a bunch of minor adjustments to the cost and weight of the martial weapons to make them more internally consistent.

Flail gets versatile, and a bonus vs shields in the feat. The idea is that the head can wrap around the shield to strike your opponent. That is an argument made historically, though I don't know if it was ever realistic.
Greataxe gets reaping to balance the slightly lower damage.
Lance gets adjusted to make it a sensible weapon, adequate on foot and better mounted. Also it gives small characters a reach weapon (other than the whip)
Rapier gets restricted to not work with shields, this fits the style and helps balance the finesse trait
Trident turns into a sensible 1H piercing weapon. Historically it was not thrown; if you want a throwable weapon with three small tines, just call it a spear. In the versatile feat, it gets a bonus vs restrained to reflect the classical net+trident combo.
War pick gets versatile, and a bonus vs heavy armor
Blowgun gets primitive, and also the property that you can attack with it from stealth. This is realistic and gives it a reason to exist in the game.
The net gets cleaned up a bit in regards to range; it is now possible to attack with it without disadvantage.
[/sblock]

I also give rogue (assassins) some bonus weapon proficienceis. I guess that is a separate issue but (a) I think it helps the subclass a lot and (b) I hate locking them out of the blowgun.

Finally I include an exotic weapon feat, in case you want to make something fancier than the basic table. Both feats are more complicated than average; consider them optional and ignore them if they don't suit you.
 

Attachments

  • WeaponsTable5e.pdf
    1.2 MB · Views: 345
  • WeaponsTable5ev2.pdf
    665.9 KB · Views: 287
  • WeaponsTable5ev3.pdf
    1.3 MB · Views: 275
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Satyrn

First Post
The armor and shield bits of versatile feel too fiddly for the final result if +1 against some opponents. While flavorful, I think would be more 5e-ish to just wrap it all up as a plain, always on +1 bonus.

I know that lessens the feel you were going for, with maces and picks better able to breach armor.
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
A flat +1 bonus is really strong, it would be hard to balance I think.

I basically agree about the fiddliness, my only defense is that the versatile property is already kind of fiddly, and I don't think I'm making it much worse. Basically my take would be that if it doesn't work for you, just ignore the versatile property all together. .At least it is all in one place.
 
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jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
The armor and shield bits of versatile feel too fiddly for the final result if +1 against some opponents. While flavorful, I think would be more 5e-ish to just wrap it all up as a plain, always on +1 bonus.

I know that lessens the feel you were going for, with maces and picks better able to breach armor.

Actually I should have said, I'd love to hear alternatives for this, it's the part I had the most trouble with. I just think that a flat +1 to hit is too strong. I thought a lot about things to do with crits but didn't come up with anything I like.
 


aco175

Legend
One of the last campaigns I had involved a PC that would kill opponents if he damaged them to 10HP or less. Every time he hit something he would immediately ask if they were 10 or less. This became a bit aggravating and I fear some of what you have would be the same. I like the flavor, but think if will be a bit unwieldy in some games.

If you put the onus on the player it may work better. Some sort of shield bonus or advantage 1/rest when using certain weapons.
 

Satyrn

First Post
Actually I should have said, I'd love to hear alternatives for this, it's the part I had the most trouble with. I just think that a flat +1 to hit is too strong. I thought a lot about things to do with crits but didn't come up with anything I like.

I was originally gonna suggest making it a +2 bonus, so the fiddliness felt like it was well rewarded. It would totally make these weapons the best against an armoured foe, of course.


Not a flat +2. Just against the heavy armor or shield
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
I was originally gonna suggest making it a +2 bonus, so the fiddliness felt like it was well rewarded. It would totally make these weapons the best against an armoured foe, of course.


Not a flat +2. Just against the heavy armor or shield
I see where you're going, and hadn't really considered that. Two initial concerns: would you need to boost longswords too, to make them comparable in some way? And, does it nerf heavy armor too hard?

--
Could do something like each type of versatile weapon gets +2 vs a particular armor type. Like the longsword vs light armor, battleaxe vs medium armor, morningstar vs heavy armor.

I don't think it nerfs armor too hard, since a 1d8 at +2 isn't very much better than 2d6 at +0.
 
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