D&D 5E Warlock/Cleric Best of all Worlds

nniciont · Jan 11, 2015

Christian said:
The fact that your warlock (or any other) levels give you 9th-level casting slots does not have any relevance to what spells you can prepare. It's only relevant in that your cure wounds spell can be cast with that 9th-level slot you got from your warlock class to heal 9d8.

I agree with your intent. I just want to clarify that Warlocks don't receive spell slots higher than 5th level. All spell-like abilities that Warlocks have at 6th through 9th spell level are gained via Mystic Arcana

Code:

At 11th level, your patron bestows upon you a magical
secret called an arcanum. Choose one 6th-level spell
from the warlock spell list as this arcanum.
You can cast your arcanum spell once without
expending a spell slot. You must finish a long rest before
you can do so again.
At higher levels, you gain more warlock spells of your
choice that can be cast in this way: one 7th-level spell
at 13th level, one 8th-level spell at 15th level, and one
9th-level spell at 17th level. You regain all uses of your
Mystic Arcanum when you finish a long rest.

kastthebloody · Feb 10, 2017

Plane Sailing said:
in what way do you think this is a relevant contribution to the topic? Clue: it isn't. You are trying to shut down another commenter with that statement, and we don't appreciate that. Please don't do that.

in what way do you think your personal judgment is relevant contribution to the topic? Clue: it isn't.
ppaladin123 was posting a valid reply to the previous comment of Michael Morris; WICH HAD NOTHING TO TO WITH THE TOPIC and was in fact shutting down conversation. ppaladin123 made it a point that his opinion was not a WOTC rule.

Blue · Feb 10, 2017

Zaruthustran said:
Heavy Armor. Shield. Martial weapons. Healing. Fireball. Invisible familiar. For the player who wants it all: the Warlock/Cleric.

Hmm. Let's look. First ability scores. DEX we can drop with heavy armor, though it means we'll go slower and miss on DEX saves. WIS and CHR both need to be at least 13 and then higher for attack rolls, save DCs, and riders.

Front line is okay. SCAG cantrips help make up for no extra attack. Either way it's not the best place for a heavy caster to be since it risks your Concentration more. Lack of boosts to melee make it lackluster. Though needs tome warlock for shillelagh unless you are also boosting STR or DEX, and that will kill you elsewhere.

Ranged ... well ranged weapons without boosts or extar atatck will take a back seat to your EB. It's a nice cantrip. Won't equal a crossbow expert with three attacks or a sharpshooter with +10 damage, but it's good. Requires high CHR, which means WIS isn't getting boosted.

Casting has some rechargable slots, but on both casting sides you will be lagging at least a full spell level behind. Two different casting stats hurts a lot. Support and battlefield control compete with Hex for Concentration, but you have both cleric and warlock lists to chose from.

You called it - a lot of flexibility to cover everything. It seems like it can pinch-hit for just about any category, though as a second-fiddle to someone who does it as their primary focus.

tglassy · Feb 10, 2017

I've always viewed it that while Clerics power comes as channeled from their god, a warlock is being taught by their patron. Like, the patron is offering to teach forbidden knowledge, not siphon his power. It would completely make sense for one character to first sell their soul in a moment of stress, then later regret this decision and turn to a god. They still remember what the patron taught them, but they can't take another level of warlock while serving their god. Though, I would probably have the character lose their Channel Divinity, at the very least, if they decided to serve their fiend patron again. Though, archfey or GOO (who may not even know he exists) might be fine.

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pdegan2814 · Feb 10, 2017

holyground said:
that is certainly one way to interpret the rules. and I don't disagree with your interpretation. however, pact magic on page 164 specifically states that each class can use other slots. when looking at cleric spell preperation, it does not state cleric slot levels. it simply says you cannot prepare a spell for which you do not have an appropriate spell slot level.

so, my interpretation is that an Mc cleric/warlock, can only pull from cleric or warlock spell lists, can only prepare the list of known spells based on their class level respectively, and then they look at highest slot level to determine which level of spells they know. clerics reset during long rest, warlocks do not.

"You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class." isn't really open to interpretations, it's quite explicit. You determine which Cleric spells you can prepare solely based on your Cleric level, so the Pact Magic spell slots have zero relevance to the calculation. This issue also applies if you're multiclassing two full-casting classes, like Cleric and Wizard(as described in the "Spell Slots" section of PHB p164). If you're a 1st-level Cleric and a 6th-level Wizard, you will have 4th-level spell slots, but you can only learn 1st-level spells from the Cleric list, and only up to 3rd-level from the Wizard list.

pdegan2814 · Feb 10, 2017

When it comes to the RP aspect of this combo, ultimately it will be up to the DM to decide whether to allow it, or to require an in-story justification, etc. I'm a big believer in the idea that multi-classing should have an in-character justification, I hate characters that are just bags of stats & abilities with no coherent story. But all that matters is what's accepted at each person's table.

mellored · Feb 10, 2017

Michael Morris said:
One major problem. clerics receive spells from gods who do want their cleric's patronage. Warlocks receive their powers from entities who likewise want their patronage. Thematically it does not work. Trying to make it work requires proceeding in defiance of the very flavor of both the classes. It reeks, and I do mean reeks of base munchkinism of the highest order.

I don't see the difference.

I mean, what's wrong with a fire warlock of Kossuth, or a death cleric of Orcus?

Yunru · Feb 10, 2017

Why are we all suddenly responding to three year old posts?

On topic: Familiars are also good at delivering touch healing spells.

Ovarwa · Feb 10, 2017

Yunru said:
Why are we all suddenly responding to three year old posts?

score one for kastthebloody? As for goodness, maybe time has passed this by. Getting heavy armor is nice; warlocks do suffer from spells known, a mediocre spell list and a rather unfortunate spell slot mechanic (that combines poorly with their spell list); and if you're going to multi-class, leaning hard on EB makes reasonable sense. (RP considerations are utterly subjective, and I think are relevant on an optimization forum only to the extent that "don't piss off your GM" is excellent character optimization advice! That said, all kinds of Warlock/Cleric combos feel great to me from an RP perspective. Trickery/Fey? Arcane/Any? Knowledge/Tome? But that's just me.) level 2: Postpone channel divinity for some warlock basics. 3-6: Postpone pact, increased slots (@2), ASI, slot level and invocations to get Cleric1 stuff. 7+: back to cleric. Is Cl2/War5 better than War7 or Cl7? Cl3/War5 better than War8 or Cl8? Or even close to as good? Level 10 seems like a tiny sweet spot for this build: 3rd level slots for both classes, which admittedly has its attraction. Beforehand and afterward...

Morrus · Feb 14, 2017

kastthebloody said:
in what way do you think your personal judgment is relevant contribution to the topic? Clue: it isn't.
ppaladin123 was posting a valid reply to the previous comment of Michael Morris; WICH HAD NOTHING TO TO WITH THE TOPIC and was in fact shutting down conversation. ppaladin123 made it a point that his opinion was not a WOTC rule.

Please avoid arguing with moderators in-thread. Especially moderator comments from *three years ago*!

(You can tell mod comments from the orange or red text they use)

D&D 5E Warlock/Cleric Best of all Worlds

nniciont

First Post

kastthebloody

First Post

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

tglassy

Adventurer

pdegan2814

First Post

pdegan2814

First Post

mellored

Legend

Yunru

Banned

Ovarwa

Explorer

Morrus

Well, that was fun

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