D&D 5E Mearls' "Firing" tweet

epithet · Jun 28, 2019

robus said:
It certainly has been, but as time passes it's seeming more and more out of step. Like for the past 40 years...

It might seem out of step for some, I think it is still pretty common for most. I can assure you that 40 years ago (or 30 years ago, or 20) it was standard practice. My memory hasn't deteriorated to the point that I'd have forgotten that.

Psyzhran2357 · Jun 28, 2019

This whole discussion is bringing back nightmares from my Applied Communications class. I thought I had a talent for copyediting but I got that delusion knocked out of me real quick.

I still have the 17th edition of Chicago sitting on my bookshelf like a brick. I don't think I've ever opened it.

lowkey13 · Jun 28, 2019

*Deleted by user*

Sacrosanct · Jun 28, 2019

robus said:
That's not grammar - those are spelling errors and those never look professional

No, those words are spelled correctly. "Their' is a correct spelling. The usage is wrong, therefore, grammar issue.

epithet · Jun 28, 2019

lowkey13 said:
... "Did y'all find the steak you wanted?" (A worker at Publix to a single shopper)
...
"So, y'all think your midwest teams can beat the S .... E ...... C?" (Southerner to a single Northern fan).
...

Don't know about Publix, but if the butcher at the H.E.B. said that to me, I'd look around to see who else he was talkin' to.

The second quote, well... the Southerner might be talkin' to a single fan, but the reference is to all misguided fans of midwest teams. That Southerner was politely acknowledging that while the person he was talkin' to might be deluded, it's a common delusion and nothing to feel too terribly ashamed about.

Twiggly the Gnome · Jun 28, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Well, a prescriptivist might attempt argue that.

A descriptivist would note that "y'all" has been used as both singular and plural, and is used (even in the South) as a sign of singular formality (cf. tu, vous).

Therefore:

"Did y'all find the steak you wanted?" (A worker at Publix to a single shopper)

"Do y'all wanna go to the movies?" (A person talking to their friends)

"All y'all doing great today?" (A player addressing the stadium)

Singlular (formal), plural, and lots 'o plural.

There's also "y'all" as a marker.

"So, y'all think your midwest teams can beat the S .... E ...... C?" (Southerner to a single Northern fan).

And, outside of the South, just singular.

Language, man. It's hard. All youse guys get it wrong.

I've lived in the South my entire life and I've never really seen this fabeled "singular y'all" out in the wild. If the conversations where it's attributed are taken in context, there is most likely an address of unseen others.

Gradine · Jun 28, 2019

epithet said:
There is a lot less than "near consensus," especially since many of the sources you rely upon are only blog posts related to a grammar reference and not the reference itself. Regardless, it has become apparent that we can't really talk about this as a grammar issue, because for many of the people in this thread the "singular they" has become an Article of Faith, an expression of a personal ideology. My interest in getting into that quagmire approaches zero.

Nice, deflecting and shutting the argument down on your own terms! I hope you enjoy continuing to yell at clouds.

I'll say this, though: it seems audacious to imply that you're entitled to choose your pronouns while I am not entitled to my attitude. I'm not agreeing with your characterization of my attitude, mind you, but you're mighty bold to think you're in a entitled to scold me for it, whatever my attitude might be.

1) I am definitely entitled to choose my own pronouns.
2) You are definitely entitled to your own attitude.
3) I am entitled to call you out on that attitude if it is, in fact, as insulting as it definitely appears to be

Y'all can keep trying to save the world with the enlightened use of pronouns, I'm in no position to stop you.

I will!

Fun Fact: The use of y'all, as a southern colloquium, would get you laughed out of any serious formal or academic written exercise. It is less grammatically correct than the singular they. It's also used as both a singular and plural (I was taught my creole grandmother that "y'all" was strictly singular, and "all y'all" is plural", so...). I'll note that I don't agree with this; I've gone on record in this thread that grammar is often used a political club by elitists to bludgeon people who they think aren't as smart and special and important as they are.

In any case, having fun clutching your pearls over the sheer existential dread that comes from a word in the English language having more than one possible interpretation, I guess.

Guest 6801328 · Jun 28, 2019

Umbran said:
I have heard southerners (and by "Southerner" I include people as far north as Ohio, because the term is frequently used that far north), use "y'all" as both singular and plural, repeatedly enough that I can't call it accidental. I think it is just eliding to use "y'all" to mean "you", which is used in both singular and plural constructions.

And the crazy thing is that it's got the word "all" right smack dab in the middle of it. And yet it can, and frequently does mean the singular version of "you".

lowkey13 · Jun 28, 2019

*Deleted by user*

epithet · Jun 28, 2019

Gradine said:
...
In any case, having fun clutching your pearls over the sheer existential dread that comes from a word in the English language having more than one possible interpretation, I guess.

You're hilarious.