D&D 4E Mike Mearls on how D&D 4E could have looked

OK on this "I would’ve much preferred the ability to adopt any role within the core 4 by giving players a big choice at level 1, an option that placed an overlay on every power you used or that gave you a new way to use them."
Basically have Source Specific Powers and less class powers. But I think combining that with having BIG differing stances to dynamically switch role might be a better idea so that your hero can adjust role to circumstance. I have to defend this NPC right now vs I have to take down the big bad right now vs I have to do minion cleaning right now, I am inspiring allies in my interesting way, who need it right now.

and the obligatory
Argghhhh on this. " I wanted classes to have different power acquisition schedules"

And thematic differences seemed to have been carried fine.
 
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pemerton

Legend
Imaro said:
the only place I see it harped on as a major problem is on forums like this and it's usually by a handful of 4e fans who are trying to convince others to be outraged enough about it to actually care as much as they seem to.
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The way that it came up in this thread was that a poster - [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION], I think - said that the 4e system (of codified powers, codified DCs, etc) inhibited player choice.

I disagreed. Nothing in the intervenig 500 or so posts has changed my mind, because all the 5e posters seem to take the view that the examples that I have in mind as illustrating what 4e permits, and as thereby marking the difference between the systems (eg 15h level fighters cutting down phalanxes of hobgoblins (statted as swarms), the forge scene, etc) are properly not feasible in 5e (because even a 15th level fighter should be threatened if surrounded by 20 hobgoblins, should most likely have his/her hands burn off if shoved into a forge, etc).

I don't care whether or not anyone else wants to play a game in which 15th level fighters are capable in that sort of way. I'm simply explaining why the 4e framework makes stuff possible - encourages it, even - which the 5e framework does not. I want that stuff even if no one else does.

To put it even more bluntly - I'm not trying to show that 5e players are irrational. I'm rebutting the suggestion that 4e does not offer anything different from 5e. It obviously does, and this thread has only underlined that fact.
 

Garthanos

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
It was mentioned earlier that throwing large numbers of magic items were a "correction" - it is a method which if formalized can work. One could even assure martial types have more items that suit them or even only work for them (or tap into their more powerful life force ie hit points and similar things if you want.)

Then someone might be able to learn techniques which operated similarly to the above flavored like Chi channelling if you like.
 

Imaro

Imaro

Legend
pemerton said:
The way that it came up in this thread was that a poster - [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION], I think - said that the 4e system (of codified powers, codified DCs, etc) inhibited player choice.

I disagreed. Nothing in the intervenig 500 or so posts has changed my mind, because all the 5e posters seem to take the view that the examples that I have in mind as illustrating what 4e permits, and as thereby marking the difference between the systems (eg 15h level fighters cutting down phalanxes of hobgoblins (statted as swarms), the forge scene, etc) are properly not feasible in 5e (because even a 15th level fighter should be threatened if surrounded by 20 hobgoblins, should most likely have his/her hands burn off if shoved into a forge, etc).

I don't care whether or not anyone else wants to play a game in which 15th level fighters are capable in that sort of way. I'm simply explaining why the 4e framework makes stuff possible - encourages it, even - which the 5e framework does not. I want that stuff even if no one else does.

To put it even more bluntly - I'm not trying to show that 5e players are irrational. I'm rebutting the suggestion that 4e does not offer anything different from 5e. It obviously does, and this thread has only underlined that fact.
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Which is why I was replying specifically to [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] who seems to want a different conversation than you do.
 


Imaro

Imaro

Legend
Garthanos said:
Read my post above for how healing surges were applicable in 4e
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Martial practices?? You acknowledge they are underpowered in relation to magic so isn't this the same problem skills have? I mean changing either one could potentially solve the problem but neither did.
 

Garthanos

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
pemerton said:
The way that it came up in this thread was that a poster - [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION], I think - said that the 4e system (of codified powers, codified DCs, etc) inhibited player choice.

I disagreed. Nothing in the intervenig 500 or so posts has changed my mind, because all the 5e posters seem to take the view that the examples that I have in mind as illustrating what 4e permits, and as thereby marking the difference between the systems (eg 15h level fighters cutting down phalanxes of hobgoblins (statted as swarms), the forge scene, etc) are properly not feasible in 5e (because even a 15th level fighter should be threatened if surrounded by 20 hobgoblins, should most likely have his/her hands burn off if shoved into a forge, etc).

I don't care whether or not anyone else wants to play a game in which 15th level fighters are capable in that sort of way. I'm simply explaining why the 4e framework makes stuff possible - encourages it, even - which the 5e framework does not. I want that stuff even if no one else does.
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Bounded accuracy wanting lower level things to remain a threat with the same mechanics they had originally at significantly lower level which I tend to characterise as 10 levels difference - if it is succeeding to a great degree seems like it would fail at bringing on some of the awesome in combat that you can indeed have - ie not just out of combat so in effect Martial is nerfed in both zones ( also not having minions / swarms and similar they even make it impractical to envision ANY of the heros fighting those Phalanxes. )
 

Garthanos

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
It occurs to me I have been assuming level 20 in 5e is the direct analog to 4e? Are their narratives supposed to be the same?
 

Garthanos

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Imaro said:
Martial practices?? You acknowledge they are underpowered in relation to magic so isn't this the same problem skills have? I mean changing either one could potentially solve the problem but neither did.
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It is a foundation ie yes it very much had the potential but wasn't followed up on and that is a criticism of 4e ... but i said foundation ie the first part of a building not the finished structure.
 

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