D&D 5E Why play a low-level Fighter when the Barbarian is so much better?

Quartz · Aug 20, 2014

Phaezen said:
At low levels the fighter has his fighting style, which is a bonus to hit, ac, damage or protecting allies;

Not really. Notice, for instance, how the barbarian's +1 HP / level counters the duellist's +2 damage thanks to taking half damage when raging.

second wind and action surge.

Action Surge is a once per day ability that only gives one turn's effect. As for second wind, if they're out of armour, the fighter is going to be hit more. That and the half damage ability more than make up for it.

You missed the weapon master gaining the ability to crit more often as well.

That's not relevant at low levels and at the levels where it is relevant barbarians do boosted damage on a crit.

Gladius Legis said:
Barbarians from Lv. 1-10 aren't exactly raging every single combat, either, assuming the 6-8 encounters/day guideline from the DM basic rules. Even from Lv. 6 with 4 rages/day there's 2-4 encounters where the Barbarian isn't raging, meaning 33-50% of your encounters.

Yes, but they still hit first and have more HP. And when they do rage, and they can when they need to, they're going to take half the damage.

Sacrosanct said:
Not everyone plays a PC based on optimization

It's not a question of optimisation but of balance and fun. Why play a fighter when you're going to be so overshadowed by the barbarian?

As I said in another thread, ISTM that a champion-path fighter makes a perfectly serviceable drop-in character, but as a main character? I'm not so sure.

Quartz · Aug 20, 2014

KarinsDad said:
Fighter 1 / Barb 1 / Fighter X probably kicks butt on both straight Fighters and straight Barbarians.

He gets the rage for the big fights (like Dragons), has better AC in the long term, and fighter benefits on average just seem better than Barbarians (e.g. 3 attacks per round at level 12 for the multiclass without the exhaustion of Frenzy).

This.

ZombieRoboNinja · Aug 20, 2014

KarinsDad said:
Fighter 1 / Barb 1 / Fighter X probably kicks butt on both straight Fighters and straight Barbarians.

He gets the rage for the big fights (like Dragons), has better AC in the long term, and fighter benefits on average just seem better than Barbarians (e.g. 3 attacks per round at level 12 for the multiclass without the exhaustion of Frenzy).

Sounds fine, if you don't mind being a level behind getting maneuvers, feats, second and third attack, etc. compared to a straight fighter.

Ashkelon · Aug 20, 2014

Note: You only have 6-8 combats per day if you use medium and easy difficulty encounters. IMHO, medium and easy difficulty encounters aren't even worth running.

If you only use deadly and hard encounters you will have only about 4 encounters per day. The barbarian can rage 4 times per day by level 6.

Also, do not forget that reckless attacker gives the barbarian advantage on attacks regardless of whether or not the barbarian is raging.

Sacrosanct · Aug 20, 2014

Quartz said:
It's not a question of optimisation but of balance and fun. Why play a fighter when you're going to be so overshadowed by the barbarian?

As I said in another thread, ISTM that a champion-path fighter makes a perfectly serviceable drop-in character, but as a main character? I'm not so sure.

If you're basing "fun" on being as mechanically powerful as another class, that is sort of optimization. Either way, my point stands. A lot of people can still have fun playing the archetype we like even if another PC occasionally does more damage or whatever. Or even if "our" character doesn't have as many dodads as another character. I.e., I can, and have, had lots of fun playing a champion fighter because when I play that particular class, I don't want to worry about codified resource management of powers/abilities. And I most certainly didn't need to have powers/abilities/maneuvers on my character sheet in order for me to be creative during game play and do fun things.

Sacrosanct · Aug 20, 2014

Ashkelon said:
Note: You only have 6-8 combats per day if you use medium and easy difficulty encounters. IMHO, medium and easy difficulty encounters aren't even worth running.

If you only use deadly and hard encounters you will have only about 4 encounters per day. The barbarian can rage 4 times per day by level 6.

Also, do not forget that reckless attacker gives the barbarian advantage on attacks regardless of whether or not the barbarian is raging.

The game is designed around 6-8 encounters. If you just skip half of those, that's on you, and not a knock on the game. How do you even handle it then? Do you just 'auto-win' every easy or medium encounter?

Any given Sunday man...

Wrathamon · Aug 20, 2014

Mirtek said:
Actually the barbarian class lends itself very well to that. Basically all barbarian abilities can be excellently explained as a sophisticated warrior entering a state of battle-zen.

While they still had the katana as a 2h 1d10 finesse weapon, I had a barbarian in the playtest who was excatly that. A cultured, educated, well spoken wandering swordsmen, who has his special technique of zen which explained all his class abilities.

LOVE IT!

Ashkelon · Aug 20, 2014

Sacrosanct said:
The game is designed around 6-8 encounters. If you just skip half of those, that's on you, and not a knock on the game. How do you even handle it then? Do you just 'auto-win' every easy or medium encounter?

Any given Sunday man...

Step 1. Go to the DMG where it gives the encounter building guidelines.
Step 2. Actually read those guidelines.
Step 3. Realize that 3 deadly encounters per day or 5 hard encounters per day are within these guidelines.
Step 4. Realize that 6-8 encounters per day is a myth

Easy and medium difficulty encounters are both so trivially easy that any party with half a brain will completely steamroll them. For the most part, I don't find that fun. As a player, I want encounters to be challenging where the outcome isn't entirely certain. As a DM, I don't want to waste time designing an encounter whose sole purpose is to chip away at party resources. If there is an encounter, I want it to be meaningful.

keterys · Aug 20, 2014

Sacrosanct said:
The game is designed around 6-8 encounters.

Where does it say that? Previous guidance I saw was 2-3 tougher encounters, not 6-8 easier encounters.

I'm also dubious about some of the other comparison points, like AC, but alas my PHB is at home, not here.

Syntallah · Aug 20, 2014

The only thing better than a barbarian, is a Mountain Dwarf barbarian! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa...

D&D 5E Why play a low-level Fighter when the Barbarian is so much better?

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